Tasers: What Science and Medicine Have To Say !!!

SCCop-
You miss my point. More Taser incidents does not equate to "more save lives" if used in cases where no force was actually necessary. It is not necessary, in every instance, to immediately incapacitate a person simply because they question a lawful command. There are, sometimes, other alternatives.

If you have used a Taser to avoid imminent risk of injury to yourself or others, I say good on ya. If you view them as a casual tool of compliance, I have little else to say. If you simply prefer to ignore the point, so be it.
Rich
 
Rich, I believe I have narrowed down our issue here. We must first agree on a commonality of terms here. When I speak of uses I mean legitimate justified uses of force. Any use of force, taser or otherwise, that is not properly justified and documented has no place in our society. That being said, our agency works with a policy (written by me) governing when tasers can be used. Under this policy they can be used if someone refuses to comply with commands during an arrest situation IF the officer can articulate that other means would have a higher propensity for injury to the officer or the arrestee. Noncompliance is not so simple when an able-bodied person is standing there saying "you ain't f-----g taking me to jail." You can't lump it all into the same category.

Are there instances of unjustified uses? You bet, it goes along with giving certain people any weapon. In that case you handle it the same as an unjustified use of a baton, oc, impact munitions, a fist, etc.
 
The poor science and claims by the manufacturer has probably clouded the issue. The risk needs to be accurately assessed so the devices can be placed I the force continuum at a correct rank.


And this is one of the points of our research !!!!!!! Unfortunately there are some who are espousing "cloudy science" surrounding this weapon system, which some groups are presenting as "scientific fact". Good research does not displace good research, but good independant peer reviewed research does displace "cloudy science" and biased opinion. If we do not fight this cloudy science with good research then we will either:

1) loose the weapon system because of public pressure (there have been several larger US departments who have taken this step), or

2) limitations will be placed on its force options context thus placing it at a higher level (deadly force). The scientific and medical research to date does not support this


More Tasers = saved lives and less injuries is not a blind statistic. I say this not from research but from good ol' fashioned street experience.

As a copper who has also used the Taser several times on the street, I could not agree with you more, however, empirical research although valuable, has to be supported by medical and scientific research thus enabling it to survive both public and legal scrutiny. As Rich stated, we need to separate parallel trends (taser causes death or taser = saved lives) with scientific and medical research that proves cause and effect. Again, I do believe that Taser saves lives, and has saved lives, how many and how often is open to debate. For example, in some lay literature , I located a quote that read "Taser has saved 5000 lives". Does this mean that if the Taser was not used there would have been 5000 deaths ?????? maybe, but I don't think so, but yet such a statement intimates this possibility. Again, sematics are important especially for public perception and court defensibility.


I am very glad to see that my posting has spawned a valuable dialogue on such a "hot topic" issue. Ultimately if we are going to win the battle of public opinion on this issue, we MUST arm ourselves with the best scientific and medical research to date. This reaserch and information is starting to get out to those special interest groups who are making the most negative noise, and it is interesting to see how they are now moving away from the medical safety issues (probably because they now know they are very weak on this point given the information in my original posting), and are now focused on the abuse issue which I believe they have a "strong" well based argument for.

As medical and scientific protocol and testing continues to develope on CEW's, there may come a point in time that we do find that there are other contra-indications that support the conclusion that Taser's should only be used in a deadly force encounter. To date however, given the significant number of completed independant and vendor based medical research projects available, it is my belief that the Taser is a "safer" force option when compaired to what law enforcement presently have available.


Darren
 
TBO-
Thanks much. I could take issue with the stats or conclusions, but I think that would sidetrack both your point and mine, while offering an alternate conclusion which would be no better supported.

The key for me is the use Policy. For that, this Department gets high marks:
The Taser shall not be used once an individual is subdued and under control, nor shall it be used against subjects who are offering passive resistance.
Rich
 
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