Tamara asks controversial question...

T

Tamara

Moderator Emeritus
Okay.

My roommate's "Tanker" Enfield has me jonesing for a cut-down carbine-length nosebleed generator of my own.

A local gunshop has an FR-8 Spanish Mauser. If I buy this thing, will I be picking bits of bolt handle out of my skull? Should I go find a Moisin-Nagant 1944g or a shortened Enfield of my own, or is this FR-8 as handy a little carbine as it looks?
 
I'd go with the Mosin-Nagant M-44 or M-38. Ammo is cheap and my Polish M44 is surprisingly accurate. If you were able to get a recoil pad installed, it wouldn't be too awful to shoot.
 
re: will I be picking bits of bolt handle out of my skull?

That depends on how adventurous you get with your reloading.

I've considered giving up my quest for a 1910 Mexican Mauser and buying a Spanish Mauser instead. I want to use it for a base to build a custom .358 Winchester bolt-action.

I think you will get lots of good service from the FR-8. I presume you are aware of the bloody godawful sights on these beasties. Do you plan to scope it or just install good iron sights?

Doc Hudson
 
I purchased an FR-8 in hopes of creating a "budget scout".
It had everything I was looking for to include: iron sights, Mauser action, short barrel, clip compatable, and even came with a flash suppressor.

So far I've done nothing to alter the rifle because of the same fears Tamara mentioned. I've fired only 50 rounds through it, using Winchester Whitebox 7.62 NATO loads and some cheap Norinco .308 Win. Accuracy was better than expected. The little gun kicked a bit from the bench, probably accentuated the steel buttplate. The sites are a pain to adjust as stated by Doc Hudson, however I do like the site picture.

Bottom line, I really like the rifle, but fear that loading it with something just a bit too hot someday will turn it into a pipe bomb. What I plan to do is have a gunsmith take a look at it to determine if it's worth the time and effort of "scouterizing" it. One gunsmith told me to forget about modifying it and to just keep the ugly thing as a truck gun. If a gun smith takes a look at it and gives it a thumbs up to modern .308 loadings, it will make a real handy walk-about rifle.

Hope this helps.

JJCII
 
Tamara, If you go the Russian route, forget the 44; it has that awful bayonet, which can be removed but the lug stays on forever. A 38 essentially is the same carbine without a bayo. Much nicer. If it were mine to decide, I'd look to Sweden and a 96-38 Mauser. Elegant, very accurate and still affordable.
 
Just the fact that you are thinking about bolt parts drilling into your forehead means that you will never have the confidence in the FR-8. Give it a pass.

My brother-in-law owns an old Columbian Model 1950 carbine. It's a 98 Mauser action made by FN in .30-06. It's short barrel and short stock makes it a definite handful to fire from the bench particularly with 220 grain loads. But it's a certain comfort on our annual fly-in fishing trip in the far north.

Second choice would be a Swedish Mauser. The older carbines are becoming harder to find but are very sweet rifles indeed.

The Moisin Nagant is a loud, hard kicking beast(the guys at the local range who own them call then "Noisy Magnets). The ones I've looked at always seemed rough and unfinished compared to the Swede and various Mauser variants.
 
FWIW, the Mosin 91/59 is easier to find now than the 38s. They are cut-down 91/30s that were arsenal-refurbished to new condition and then mothballed (in case of an invasion by the West) in the '50s. They have a slightly heavier bbl than the 44s/38s, but they have no bayo. And you can find them in new condition for $79 retail.

If you can't get a 94 Swede :D, give the MNs some thought.
 
I have an FR-8, and like it. Accuracy isn't great, about 3-4" groups when I first tested it with some cheap ammo, but then it was the first time I shot it and I wasn't used to the unusual sights. I have improved since then, but it still aint no benchrest rifle. The sights do take a little getting used to, but I don't think they are "bloody godawful", - small, fairly close to the eye aperatures set at graduated distances combined with a hooded front post can be very accurate. Yeah, the combination of little rifle and metal buttplate does thump your shoulder pretty good.

When I bought mine I did some research on them and found some good info but can't remember what website it was on. Do a search here on it and you should come up with the links. From what I remember, the FR-8 should be good to go for any .308 loads you want to put through it, they are built on a 98 type action (mine is a FABRICA DE ARMAS LA CORUNA 1950) the FR-7 was built on an earlier action type and is questionable at this pressure level. Both were made in the 60's for use as reserve rifles, by rebarreling old mausers with CETME barrels (after NATO went to 7.62 standard ammo) and switching the gas-tube mount/sight assembly around to use the center hole for the barrel and the bottom hole to hold a cleaning kit tube which acts as the bayonet mount lug. Most had very little to no use after being rebarreled as Spain went through a major upgrade in their weapons in the late 60's through the 70's. Mine had almost no wear on the finish on the bolt, mag follower, or rails (it does now). :)

I think "scouterizing" an FR-8 would be more trouble than it is worth. To get a forward mounted scope you would have to get rid of the top piece of wood, which would then mean you have to get rid of the front metal, which would mean you would have to recontour the front of the stock, and would no longer have the rear hole for the cleaning kit tube/bayonet lug, which would leave the funky bottom ring of the front sight assembly empty and hanging down looking as bad as the bayo mount on an M-44. The sights stick up high enough and are large enough that they would probably interfere with vision through any type of scope unless you went with high rings which would raise your cheek enough to make sure it gets a crack when you shoot.

I would say that if the rifle intrigues you, go ahead and buy it, but leave it alone. Mine is my "truck gun", and is pretty handy just the way it is. These aren't a very common rifle, and it would be easier to make a "scout" out of a lot of other mausers. How much do they want for it? I have only seen one other FR-8 anywhere, and that shop wanted around $300 if I remember right, and I think some of the other guys here that have them said they paid about $250. You should be able to pick up a Yugo M-48 for less than that and it would be a lot easier to "scouterize" if you don't mind shooting 8mm rather than 7.62.
bergie
 
Saw an Ad from the Shotgun News Treasury

SOG International Inc. 1-800-944-GUNS

ORIGINAL ENFIELD JUNGLE CARBINE NO.5 MK1 .303 Cal

These are original 1940's rifles they're offereing, not resconstructs or cut down full size Enfields. C&R applicable. List price for one is $209.95
 
Personally, i'd go with a Hi-Point carbine(just kidding-you know i'm a Hi-Point fan).Actually,i'd go with an M-44 and its awesome bayonet or possibly one of the Gibbs extreme carbines in .308
 
Looking at your picks, you must like having large bruises on your shooting shoulder.

I'll second what was said earlier - if you're worried about it dismantling itself into your head, don't get it. I wouldn't buy a car I thought was unsafe, either.

I'd go with the '38 Nagant carbine.

You're in the Atlanta area, right? If you want to give a type 38 a try before you shell out some $, mine's been athering dust for a while - drop me a line.
 
The question

Answer: Nope to the FR-8 Spanish Mauser. Don't care for those Jungle carbines either.

Recently someone posted their experience with the Gibbs Jungle Carbines. Frankly I was not impressed with their accuracy report. Got a nasty kick too.

Over the years I've purchased various POS surplus rifles with the idea of sporterizing or modifying them to produce a scout rifle. After spending many hours and $$$ they were all still a POS! Well, with age come wisdom.

Years ago I found a slightly used Remington Model 600 in .308 WCF. It has an excellent trigger and still shoots sub MOA groups at the 100 yd-mark with a number of factory loads and my best reloads. On a good day, I can hit a pissant on a log from a 100 paces!

I've since traded all my surplus POS rifles. That old Remington Model 600 carbine is the "scout rifle" I sought for many years. While I would have preferred it in .358 WCF, brass in that caliber is destined to become scarce so I'll keep it barrelled in .308 WCF.
 
Tamara -

Go with the Polish M-44. You can get them in very good shape and they are amazing shooters. They are also dirt cheap. Mine is a great deal of fun, and the 7.62X54 is a potent caliber. All in all a good buy. Goodbye.
 
go with the "noisy magnat" the things are very accurate and the recoil is no more than a 308 or 30/06. I have a model 27 that shoots groups under MOA at 100 yds. its more fun than pickin bananas and ya don't have to worry about the thing givin ya a lobotemy
 
Why not just pry open the wallet a bit wider and go for a shiny new Savage Scout in .308. Just forego the glass optics. New, accurate and only is dangerous at one end.
 
T,if I were you I`d just get a Gibbs Enfield. The #7 Jungle Carbine should fill the bill nicely. The Enfields action is debatably the fastest bolt action out there and the detatchable mags hold 10/12rds. Those 2 things alone are hard to beat on a "social" type rifle. If you wanna go the full scout bit you can get a ChingRing scout type scope mount installed by AshleyOutdoors or put a B-Square mount in place of the rear sight. A Ramline fiberglass stock will trim some weight off it,add a thick recoil pad and free floats the barrel. They do require some fitting on .308 Enfields though. Marcus
 
I'll have to agree with the other Nagant lovers. I have had several through the years and basic reliability is a primary asset. All have been acceptably accurate, some so accurate it's scary. I gave a friend a $39 type 52 Chinee version that will shoot 1 in groups at 100yds on a good day! Contrary to others I love the bayonette, if you are out of ammo a spear beats a club any day (and it's silent). Ammo is super cheap which cannot be said of the SMLE or the Swede. Also 7.62X54 can now be found in military tracer and API...fun stuff.

FWIW Alex
 
Well...

...bought the FR-8. Lordy, this is one slick-looking rifle; it looks like a WWI straight-bolt-handle Mauser rear-ended a modern assault rifle, with its shrouded front sight and G-3 type muzzle-brake.

I have no desire to make a modern scout-type rifle out of it. I personally dislike sporterized warhorses, preferring to let them out to pasture in their original state. ;) I don't expect super accuracy out of old battle rifles, just letting them thunder and send a round or two downrange every so often is fun in and of itself.

The best thing? $179; cheap enough to maybe prowl for a long Moisin-Nagant or some such at the next gun show. That's the problem with old bolt-action warhorses; they're cheap enough to make you want to collect the whole set. :D
 
re: I would have preferred it in .358 WCF,

Hey AUTiger73,

Go ahead and rebarrel that M-600 to my favorite medium bore if you want one. Don't sweat the brass problem.

As long as .308 Win ammo is loaded, and I have a set of .358 dies, I will have plenty of .358 brass. A little lube in the case mouth and a single pass through the sizer die will make it a .358.

Just to encourage you to make the change, let me say this. My .358 Win BLR is the most accurate rifle I've ever owned and one of the most accurate I've ever shot.

BTW, I have a pal in Dothan named John Killebrew, he has a thing about FA .454's. Do you know him?

Doc Hudson
 
Doc Hudson causes 'thread veer'...

Mmmmmm.... BLR....

(You'll note that on every "favorite", "dream", or "prettiest" gun thread we've done, I've nominated the BLR. I want mine in .243 for some unknown reason...:))
 
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