Taking the leap.... (long range shooting).

[precision_shooter]

"Hold over" is not related to scope magnification, it's ballistic-dependent. Same for any magnification...

If you really plan on holding, instead of dialing up, make sure you get a mil-dot reticle. Again, for holding over a mil-mil system would be far easier and intuitive to use. Don't be intimidated by a mil-mil system, it's not difficult to master. Just sayin... I use minute of angle because I dial, and don't range...but if that's your end game, mil-mil would better serve you.

Dope for my son's AR-10, 175 SMK, 2800 fps mv, 200 yard zero:

600 yards: 13.69 minutes
800 yards: 23.30 minutes
1K yards: 35.47

This is true, the holdover calculation doesn't change for a given load. But if using a SFP scope, Depending on your magnification setting, will determine the actual subtension measurement of your reticle and require a different hold based on that magnification.

For example, the 600 yard hold you have listed above using a 6-24x SFP scope with MOA reticle (Assuming true subtension occurs on max magnification):
When looking through the scope, 13.69 minutes in the reticle is true only at max magnification. Change the magnification down to 18x and in your reticle you only hold 10.27 minutes, 12x would be 6.85 minute hold and at 6x it's only a 3.42 minute hold all for the same 13.69 minutes of drop you are compensating for...

 

[mapsjanhere]

My suggestion, start with a decent Rem 700 in 308. Use the money you save over an AR-10 to buy a Mossberg 500 for self defense. Once you learned to shoot that rifle to "it's the rifle, not my shooting", you can start upgrading. McMillan or AI Stock, blueprint the action, if needed with a barrel change and/or caliber change, Nightforce or similar scope etc. Long-range shooting is more of a journey anyway...

 

[green_MTman]

people on this forum give iresponsible advice.they say they can kill and elk with a .243 at 600 yards.mostly neck shots in perfect wind conditions.

the 7mm rem.ultra mag. using a 160gr accubond or what not can kill any game in north america at 600 yards and deer at 1200 yds in any wind condition with inperfect heart or lung shots.

people brag but in the REAL wilderness weather changes and a good rest can be hard to find on a winding mountain slope.

300 and 338 mags are not nececary and .308 and 260's are not practical at 600 to 800 yards in real wilderness sitiuations

 

[Nathan]

Frankly, I can't tell your budget by your hints. If I were looking to get into long range shooting with some accuracy, I would get whichever sounds more fun:

$2500 - A savage 12 in 308 with a muzzle brake attached and a Burris 5-25 XTRII.

$3500- An AR10 built with a 24" Kreiger barrel, Geissle trigger, free float forearm, PRS stock with a Burris 4-20 XTR II.

 

[precision_shooter]

people on this forum give iresponsible advice.they say they can kill and elk with a .243 at 600 yards.mostly neck shots in perfect wind conditions.

the 7mm rem.ultra mag. using a 160gr accubond or what not can kill any game in north america at 600 yards and deer at 1200 yds in any wind condition with inperfect heart or lung shots.

people brag but in the REAL wilderness weather changes and a good rest can be hard to find on a winding mountain slope.

300 and 338 mags are not nececary and .308 and 260's are not practical at 600 to 800 yards in real wilderness sitiuations

Ummm..... What!?

Besides making no rational sense, that also has nothing to do with this thread...

 

[handlerer2]

Here's what my wife bought me for fun. I brought it from Montana to the MS Coast. Seems sensible to me after hunting, shooting and reloading for 300&340WBY.

It's not really a custom target rifle, but it shoots better than I could have hoped for. I really believe that to improve from this point would require a dedicated target rifle. The kind they feature on Accurateshooter.com.

6.5-284 and 300WBY are almost identical ballistically out to over 1000yds. The Cooper is much easier to shoot consistently, less recoil and this barrel is very slow to copper foul compared to either Weatherby.

I had to start from scratch, as far as Ammo goes. I got the best I could. Lapua brass, Redding dies. First stab was the combo used by Cooper for the test target. I talked with the guys that tested my rifle and received advice on COAl and powder. I zero'd in four rounds and the next five were about .3". Used RL22 first 50 rounds,Sierra 142gr and Berger 140grVLD's on second 50. I have reloaded 139 Lapua's using RL17, but haven't gotten around to them yet.

Shooting is fun again. A local range on HWY 98 goes to 500yds. A few guys have varmint type rifles, down here the best one is a Savage with some bolt work, 22-250AI. We shoot 10 round groups anywhere from 100-300yds for cigars or six pack $10 limit.

I did buy him a six pack at 100yds, and enjoyed the cigars he got me when we did 200 and 300 yds. I was hot that day, did 10 at just under 1". Was some wind intermittent.

I don't compete formally and am pleased at this level

 

[4runnerman]

Handlerer2- Can't see rifle to well, but the name speaks for itself. Coopers are amazing rifles for sure.

 

[toppermost]

Great advice everyone. Thanks again.

Another question...

I have built a couple of mixed-parts "frankengun" AR15's and have never had issues. I don't get too concerned with long range distances and group sizes. They all go bang when I want them to and when I miss it is not because of the gun...

But I can see how people might be more careful with AR10's (or whatever you want to call it). If I go with that rifle, should I make sure the barrel, LPK, receivers, etc are the same manufacturer? Should I get a legit armorer to put it altogether? Should I get a REALLY pricey BCG? Would it even be cheaper to buy the parts separately or should I bite the bullet and just buy one off the rack ??

 

[kraigwy]

Might want to check out the CMP's Auction site.

I picked up this Model 70 Winchester in 308 for less then $600. Its a AMU built target rifle.

My intention was to pull the barrel off and true (square) the face of the action with the internal threads. Before I did that I put on a set of Redfield Olympic Sights to see how it shot.........I decided not to pull the barrel, I think the AMU armors already did that.

I also use a Weaver T-10 (I'm with Bart on the Weavers) and I've shot some damn good 1000 yard scores using the 308 in my NG days.

This puppy shoots like a house on fire. All for less then $600. I had the sights and scope, it came with the bases.

I just cant get all warm and fuzzy with a bolt gun target rifle that isn't a Winchester. (Same thing with hunting rifles). But that's my prejudges toward Model 70s.

I also got a good barreled action, again a AMU built Model 70 target rifle in 300 WM from the CMP auctions. But I haven't had time to put it in a stock. I haven't got a stock for it yet but I'm sure its going to be a shooter.

I'm not into high power scopes, they seem to pick up heat off the barrel, even with the 10 X scopes I use a barrel ban to keep barrel heat from confusing me with mirage.