Tactically is this how it should be done?

wickedrider

New member
This is an incident that occurred in Richmond, VA, I believe on Saturday. Note how the victims were telling the the OC to kill him. Note his reaction. He only used the force necessary to stop the threat. Is this how it should be done?

http://www.timesdispatch.com/rtd/news/local/crime/article/ROBB15_20090714-222605/280016/#comments

Richmond Store owner grateful for man who shot robber

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By Reed Williams

Published: July 15, 2009

Three days after Mustapha Kassou was shot in an attempted robbery in his store in South Richmond, he said that he owed his life to the man who ended the ordeal by shooting the robber.

Yesterday, Kassou returned to Golden Food Market on Jefferson Davis Highway for the first time since he was shot there Saturday afternoon.

Kassou said the masked robber walked into the store shortly after 1 p.m. and seemed startled to see about eight people inside. The robber told everyone to get on the floor, and then he fired at Kassou and hit him twice, he said.

"When the guy shot me, I was waiting for him to finish me," Kassou said. "I was knocked down behind the cash register."

The other armed man pulled a six-shot revolver from his holster and told the robber to drop his weapon, Kassou said. When he didn't, authorities say, the man shot the robber once in the torso, took the robber's gun and called police.

Witnesses told police it appeared the robber ran out of bullets and tried to reload. Some people in the store told the man to finish off the robber, witnesses reported.

"Everyone was telling him to kill him," Kassou said, "but he said, 'I can't do it.'"

Saturday's incident was the second such shooting at the store in a month.

The two shootings at Golden Food and the fatal shooting of a shopkeeper last month in another store just blocks away have alarmed some nearby residents, although police say the number of violent crimes along the Jefferson Davis corridor has been declining since May.

Councilwoman Reva Trammell, whose 8th District includes the corridor, and police Cmdr. Steve Drew will hold a public safety meeting for Jeff Davis-area business owners tonight from 6 to 8 at the Satellite Restaurant, 4000 Jefferson Davis Highway.

Kassou was released from the hospital Sunday, but he was limping and in obvious pain yesterday. He sat inside his store with family members, but he kept the front door locked. He said the shootings have made him scared of almost everyone.

He said he was struggling with whether he should reopen the store. He does not know how he would support his wife and two children if he chooses to keep the store closed.

Kassou said he is considering returning to his native Morocco. He said he is an American citizen and has lived here about 20 years and loves this country.

"It's not worth it anymore," he said, adding that he will arm himself if he reopens the store.

Kassou said he still is alive because of God -- and because of the man who drew a .45-caliber Western-style revolver and ended Saturday's robbery by shooting the gunman.

"He saved a lot of lives," Kassou said. "He was like an angel who came to save everybody."

Authorities say the robber was wounded after he shot Kassou and fired on customers.

Neither Kassou nor the police would identify the man who shot the robber. Authorities said an initial investigation indicates the man acted lawfully when he shot the robber.

Police have charged James Grooms III, 30, of South Richmond with attempted robbery, use of a firearm and possession of a firearm by a felon.

He remained in critical condition last night at VCU Medical Center.

A woman who said she is one of Grooms' relatives declined to comment when reached by phone yesterday.
 
Tactically is this how it should be done?

I don't know about giving the guy a warning after he already shot someone, but other than that, yes.


"Authorities said an initial investigation indicates the man acted lawfully when he shot the robber."

Whew! Bet they needed the rocket scientists to figure that one out.:rolleyes:
 
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Shooting in Richmond:

Thank God for CCW in that incident. No telling how many folks would have been shot if the robber was not stopped by this citizen and his conceal carry pistol. Richmond, VA is my home town and I feel for the store owner and his family. Being as this business has been robbed (prior to this hold up as well), it is probably best the owner does arm himself before re-opening his store....
 
Why the heck give a warning? I'll never figure that one out. Folks watching too much TV maybe?
Or too afraid of being prosecuted for acting lawfully... Or afraid of actually having to shoot someone...

I think the more interesting fact is that everyone in the store told him to finish the guy off...
 
I think the more interesting fact is that everyone in the store told him to finish the guy off...
Interesting, and unsurprising. When you consider how little time so many who are convicted of crimes like this (and worse) actually serve, well...reactions like this are quite understandable.
 
Why the heck give a warning?

Perhaps an effort to try and keep from having to shoot someone. There are ways to use graduated amounts of force, there's also this;

Witnesses told police it appeared the robber ran out of bullets and tried to reload.

The good guy may have tried to take advantage of this "reload" to gain compliance by the robber, when he felt it was not going to happen, he fired.

Either way, to answer the question, I believe it was artfully done, the man exercised great restraint and finesse.
 
I'd like to know what kind of "Cowboy gun" he was carrying. If he used a single action six shooter it would be interesting to know. :rolleyes:

I've been thinking about carrying a birdseye grip single action sheriff type model. I know that isn't a very popular choice for CC, and many people would think it an unwise and insane choice, but when I pick up a single action six gun it's like an extension of my arm, a feeling I never get with simiautos or even modern revolvers. I "know" where the bullet's going to hit, I don't have to use the sights, it's simply a matter shooting what I'm looking at. With simi's that "extension of the arm" feeling isn't there and I have to rely on the sights to hit what I want to.

I guess it all comes down to what one's comfortable with.

If things went down as were described, it sounds like the man handled himself and the situation very well.
 
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The man did a great job, no doubt abt that. But how come the shooter is not identified? Did he wait for the police or left the place? Could any one enlighten me what would happen if a person legally shot some one & leave the scene without informing the authorities and wait for their arrival? I mean can charges be pressed against him(later of course because sooner or later he may be discovered). Thanks
 
As much as I'd love to know details on the gun, the shooter SHOULD NOT BE IDENTIFIED!!!

The robber may have equally twisted kinfolk or fellow gangbangers.
 
Check out this posted comment to the story:

---
Posted by ( nostretstranger ) on July 15, 2009 at 5:02 pm

IF U KNEW MR.GROOMS, U WOULD KNOW THAT THIS IS (WAS) NOT HIS CHARACTER. IT’S SAD TO KNOW THAT YET ANOTHER LIFE HAS BEEN TAKEN FOR A SENSELESS CRIME. MY HEART AND PRAYERS GOES OUT TO THIS MAN AND HIS FAMILY.
THE INDIVIDUAL THAT THINKS HE DID SOCIETY A FAVOR, U DIDN’T…U ONLY HAVE TO FACE FATE ON JUDGMENT DAY. I HOPE AND PRAY U CAN JUSTIFY THIS TO UR MAKER, (AND NOT YOUR PARENTS EITHER!!)
THERE WAS NO HERO IN THIS SHAME ONLY A TRAGEDY. ANOTHER INDIVIDUAL LOST TO SOCIETY AND TURNED TO THE STREETS.

MR.GROOMS WILL ALWAYS BE LOVED AND MOST IMPORTANTLY HIS GOOD MEMORIES WILL BE CHERISHED…...
---

Jim again. You want the author of THAT little screed knowing the name of the CCW holder?
 
Just imagine the Police asking the customers who have just had their lives saved (they would think) by a man with a "Cowboy gun" to describe the "Cowboy"

"What guy with a gun?" "I was looking the other way" I bet 4 where in the toilet!
 
How? Can't say. Wasn't there.

If I had to venture a guess, I do not think I would have found myself giving a warning. Matter of fact, I really, really don't think so!

What one cannot know is whether the man with the man who saved the day might have been able to shoot first. Mr. Kassou might have been better off.
 
Good guy handled it extremely well. Whether or not to speak, is up to the individual. Not listening to the peanut gallery telling him to finish off the bad guy was paramount. Once the bad guy is no longer a threat, you've reached your limit on deadly force. If good guy had executed (yes, it would have been an execution) the downed bad guy, the good guy would be no better than the bad guy.
 
Good guy handled it extremely well. Whether or not to speak, is up to the individual. Not listening to the peanut gallery telling him to finish off the bad guy was paramount. Once the bad guy is no longer a threat, you've reached your limit on deadly force. If good guy had executed (yes, it would have been an execution) the downed bad guy, the good guy would be no better than the bad guy.

+1
 
Why the heck give a warning? I'll never figure that one out. Folks watching too much TV maybe?

I'm going with "absolutely didn't want to take a life and was giving a last gasp effort at diffusing the situation before doing anything irreversible".

Tactically unsound, but very VERY human.
 
Tactically unsound, but very VERY human.

Yup. Required reading: "On Killing" by Col. Grossman. He shows exactly what happens when people go to war: they either kill, or they run away, or they go into a supporting-role mode (reloading the guns for the people who ARE shooting, fetching ammo, caring for wounded, etc.) or they "posture" - basically try and scare the other guy away.

"Posturing" takes all kinds of forms, some of which are tactically sound, some are so very NOT.

Verbally challenging an "active shooter" falls deep in the "not" category, but "posturing" to avoid a lethal fight is hard-wired into our genes. So it happens a lot.

Damned few people can go from "zero to kill" even under serious threat. You have to mentally work out the morality of the situation beforehand so you're not trying to do so when it's a two-way shooting range. And THEN you have to roll-play the hell out of it if you want even a chance of it working out as well as it did in this case.

Plain fact: humans are NOT hard-wired to kill. Believe it.
 
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