Tactical light on glock - should they be used for home defense?
- Thread starter Always-Vigilant
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That article mentions 5 accidents in 9 years across the US as a whole. Talk about a small number. For that matter, in order for someone to be hurt the muzzles of those firearms had to be pointed at someone. Why was that the case if that person was not an active threat? There is always the universal cover position.
I've taken classes with a number of members of law enforcement. My experience has been that unless that officer is a member of some sort of SWAT or other response team, his/her training is often poorer than many of the civilians in the class. I took a vehicle course recently where I watched officers that had literally decades on the force flagging their own legs when drawing from their holsters in the driver's seat. These guys had spent more time in a car than many will in a lifetime. You can look at this in different ways. You can look at it as, "Boy, even a police officer can't do that task safely!". Or you can look at it as, "Boy, that officer has been lacking training that could have cost him/her his life many times over the past years!" I have a lot of respect for LE, but I recognize their limitations in time and money to get even regular training depending on the department (every course I've taken with a current or former law officer has been on that officer's own time and money, their departments helped with nothing). I do not use them as the benchmark of whether or not a tool or technique can be used or done safely.
I will agree with you though that training is always important.
2damnold4this
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I'm going to take a low light pistol class Saturday and will report back what I learn. My concealed carry G26 has no rail to mount a light but my G17 does. I'm planning on taking several hand held lights along with my G26 but I'll also take the G17. I'd really like to get better with the firearm I carry, so I'll concentrate on the G26.
My EDC gun is also my bedside gun. The larger G17 or an AR with a light might be a better choice for home defense but I don't bother to open the safe twice a day. Perhaps this class will change my mind.
My EDC gun is also my bedside gun. The larger G17 or an AR with a light might be a better choice for home defense but I don't bother to open the safe twice a day. Perhaps this class will change my mind.
Well target identification is a good thing, saved my daughter when she decided to come in (snick into the house) at 3:00 AM without telling us she had left (17 yrs old at the time, now 28). Light and gun was pointed at the floor in-front of her but the gun light was sufficient to tell me who was there. Last time she ever pulled that stunt.
I don't remember when was the last time I heard of a burglar turning on the lights when robing a house, usually they cut the breakers or the line into the house so they can not be ID'ed if the lights where turned on by a home owner. Of course some are not that smart, or they would be breaking in during the day when no one was home but at work. (most are done during daylight hours.) Now, breaking into someone's garage at night is a common occurrence, but motion sensing lights can help avoid that from happening. You will need some form of light, and I would still prefer one that mounts on the gun and can also be used for aiming when the sights are not visible in the dark. Unless you have night sights on the gun which most people don't.
It is nice to be able to blind someone who has a gun or knife in their hand, it will give you a 5 to 10 second advantage till their eyes can focus again. During that time you can tell if they are trying to raise their pistol (justifiable cause) and stop them. A light mounted on a taser works just as well.
I personally would rather have one hand free to do things like open doors or even turning on a light switch or grabbing a table to turn over and use as a shield. But if you want to have something in both hands that's your call.
Be sure to double lock your doors and let the dogs roam the house at night, and by all means stay safe.
Jim
I don't remember when was the last time I heard of a burglar turning on the lights when robing a house, usually they cut the breakers or the line into the house so they can not be ID'ed if the lights where turned on by a home owner. Of course some are not that smart, or they would be breaking in during the day when no one was home but at work. (most are done during daylight hours.) Now, breaking into someone's garage at night is a common occurrence, but motion sensing lights can help avoid that from happening. You will need some form of light, and I would still prefer one that mounts on the gun and can also be used for aiming when the sights are not visible in the dark. Unless you have night sights on the gun which most people don't.
It is nice to be able to blind someone who has a gun or knife in their hand, it will give you a 5 to 10 second advantage till their eyes can focus again. During that time you can tell if they are trying to raise their pistol (justifiable cause) and stop them. A light mounted on a taser works just as well.
I personally would rather have one hand free to do things like open doors or even turning on a light switch or grabbing a table to turn over and use as a shield. But if you want to have something in both hands that's your call.
Be sure to double lock your doors and let the dogs roam the house at night, and by all means stay safe.
Jim
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2damnold4this
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On the subject of lights for defense, what are your thoughts on the different switch types available for hand held lights? Many Surefire lights intended to be used in the hand have a momentary on tail cap switch while other lights have a click type tail cap. What are the advantages and disadvantages to each style of switch for a hand held light?
I have lots of light switches, seriously, I do. It really is easier and more effective, in my house, to simply flip a switch if you need to. That way I can see everything in a large room rather than just where I point my gun.
As I picture someone actually trying to use a weapon-mounted light, I have this vision of Barnie Fife shaking his gun all about just trying to see what's in the dark room!
Lol, it was a joke not drama. I have a room in my house that is easily 30 ft across. Certainly feasible for two people to be in the same room. Like I said, different houses.
The spill on most weapon lights is quite large. Going from dark to illuminated with the weapon mounted light and even in the large room I describe above I can see pretty much anything in my line of sight. We're talking a lot more lumens than a basic flashlight. That said if you have the switches rock on. My point was there are times for other people when that might not be the case.
You may have that picture in your head, but it's one that doesn't really fit.
My thought on lights mounted on guns. I have to ask who lives in a house that is so dark that you cannot see during night time hours WITHOUT the lights on??
Just my opinion I don't need a light on my HD gun. Most of us have lived in our homes for some time, thus knowing the layout, furniture location and the such. A great advantage over the intruder. As stated by previous posts, extra do-hickies to fool with and saying here I am
In closing I have never in 24 years in my house never been had the occasion that it was so dark that I couldn't see and needed a light.
Just my opinion I don't need a light on my HD gun. Most of us have lived in our homes for some time, thus knowing the layout, furniture location and the such. A great advantage over the intruder. As stated by previous posts, extra do-hickies to fool with and saying here I amIn closing I have never in 24 years in my house never been had the occasion that it was so dark that I couldn't see and needed a light.
There are 3 things that we need light for in a tactical siituation.
1. To identify the threat as a THREAT
2. To navigate thru the environment we are in
3. To see the sights for accurate shot placement
The above post only deals with one of those factors, and in my opinion not the most important of them.
Very little light is needed to move around a house without tripping over furniture. To ID a vague shadowy figure POSITIVELY as a deadly threat that you must shoot, takes a lot more light
Tactical Jackalope
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I love all these "rabbit out of the hat" scenarios... Answer the question and stop being contrarians all the time.
OP, yes... They're good to have. Like the gun, it's better to have it and not need it than to need it and not have it.* Know when you should and shouldn't use it. People are assuming it'll stay on or something. There are "temporary" switches, usually on either side.
How to know when to use it or not? Simple. Take a night time defense course. I've learned a lot from those courses. Another thing people don't put into consideration, when you wake up at 3am and you have that natural "night vision" eye sight, aren't you ultra sensitive to the first bundle of light you see? You feel "blinded" and if you shut it off right after, you've lost your night vision for a little while.
So yes, it's a double edged sword. But again. *It's better to have it and not need it than to need it and not have it.* This is something we live by when we are armed citizens. This isn't any different.
OP, yes... They're good to have. Like the gun, it's better to have it and not need it than to need it and not have it.* Know when you should and shouldn't use it. People are assuming it'll stay on or something. There are "temporary" switches, usually on either side.
How to know when to use it or not? Simple. Take a night time defense course. I've learned a lot from those courses. Another thing people don't put into consideration, when you wake up at 3am and you have that natural "night vision" eye sight, aren't you ultra sensitive to the first bundle of light you see? You feel "blinded" and if you shut it off right after, you've lost your night vision for a little while.
So yes, it's a double edged sword. But again. *It's better to have it and not need it than to need it and not have it.* This is something we live by when we are armed citizens. This isn't any different.
TunnelRat I'd not assume the newspaper found all the instances. It didn't list one I'd read and was thinking about when I came across that article.
Also, nowhere did I say or infer that LE weapon-light training was uniformly available, or if so, produced superior interest on the part of the million cops in the country to develop skillset beyond whatever it took to get through a class.
Yes, private citizens interested in shooting classes, training, competition & practice may acquire better skills in shooting than cops who only see their gun as a piece of equipment they don't particularly enjoy using. Not surprising.
However, one of the problems often encountered by private citizens is that they aren't usually experienced in frequently facing dangerous situations, let alone trained in doing so. Operating equipment without stress is one thing, like shooting at a range, and yet often another thing when trying to do so while experiencing serious stress.
Then, there's the difference in stress between just being watched by other shooters on a range (like in an IDPA competition), or suddenly believing there's an imminent threat of serious bodily injury or death to yourself or a loved one.
If LE, trained to encounter potentially dangerous situations, and often more experienced in doing so than regular citizens, can make mistakes when using a piece of equipment, how much more so might a regular citizen be likely to make a mistake when experiencing his/her first perceived dangerous situation? Relevant, good training can help, whether it be LE or private citizen.
People make the mistake of hitting the accelerator pedal instead of the brake pedal under sudden stress (surprise, fear, etc), and do so more often than some folks might think.
How is that different than having a 'trigger' finger find the trigger, instead of the light switch, under stressful conditions? Drivers also usually have a LOT more experience in selecting the correct pedal for normal circumstances in their vehicles every day, and yet drivers still make mistakes in selecting the proper pedals under sudden stress all the time.
Now, think about using triggers and light switches on firearms may get only infrequent use or practice. Whether it be cop or a regular citizen, when it comes to using equipment, and knowing when to use equipment, familiarity, training and experience can be helpful. High risk/Low Frequency events deserve careful consideration.
Also, nowhere did I say or infer that LE weapon-light training was uniformly available, or if so, produced superior interest on the part of the million cops in the country to develop skillset beyond whatever it took to get through a class.
Yes, private citizens interested in shooting classes, training, competition & practice may acquire better skills in shooting than cops who only see their gun as a piece of equipment they don't particularly enjoy using. Not surprising.
However, one of the problems often encountered by private citizens is that they aren't usually experienced in frequently facing dangerous situations, let alone trained in doing so. Operating equipment without stress is one thing, like shooting at a range, and yet often another thing when trying to do so while experiencing serious stress.
Then, there's the difference in stress between just being watched by other shooters on a range (like in an IDPA competition), or suddenly believing there's an imminent threat of serious bodily injury or death to yourself or a loved one.
If LE, trained to encounter potentially dangerous situations, and often more experienced in doing so than regular citizens, can make mistakes when using a piece of equipment, how much more so might a regular citizen be likely to make a mistake when experiencing his/her first perceived dangerous situation? Relevant, good training can help, whether it be LE or private citizen.
People make the mistake of hitting the accelerator pedal instead of the brake pedal under sudden stress (surprise, fear, etc), and do so more often than some folks might think.
How is that different than having a 'trigger' finger find the trigger, instead of the light switch, under stressful conditions? Drivers also usually have a LOT more experience in selecting the correct pedal for normal circumstances in their vehicles every day, and yet drivers still make mistakes in selecting the proper pedals under sudden stress all the time.
Now, think about using triggers and light switches on firearms may get only infrequent use or practice. Whether it be cop or a regular citizen, when it comes to using equipment, and knowing when to use equipment, familiarity, training and experience can be helpful. High risk/Low Frequency events deserve careful consideration.
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This applies to all people and is rather obvious. Unless you want to do training where we try to kill each other, there is no perfect simulation of life and death events. We make the best facsimile we can, even in police training.
This is the argument I anticipated you'd use, and in fact it's why I mentioned it above. So because an extremely small percentage of officers both have poor muzzle discipline and make a mistake when it comes to activating a weapon light, then a citizen will do the same? The use of a firearm by itself is dangerous and there are plenty who have negligent discharges and kill loved ones. This does not mean other private citizens are doomed to the same fate. The same logic applies to weapon lights. There will always be those that lack proper diligence when using a product and result in injury.
A straw man if I ever saw one. Yes humans are fallible, no one is saying they aren't. Not all drivers hit the accelerator instead of the brake. Not even most drivers, it's a small subset. You're applying what happens to a small minority and casting it on the whole. By the same logic we wouldn't allow anyone to own firearms in the first place because far more people will die in a year from violating the fundamental rules of safety than anything as specific as weapon lights.
Please point out to me where I said training and experience are not helpful. In fact I said the opposite.
On the Streamlight TLR-1 HL I use the toggle is outside the trigger guard by a noticeable margin. The motion to activate the light involves me pushing my extended finger downward, away from the trigger. When I activate the light, my finger is left in a position where the tip of my finger is beyond the front of the trigger guard. I then have to make a deliberate motion to bend the finger to get it back into the trigger guard. It's designed in a way to keep the user from negligently pressing the trigger, at least as much as possible (which is all we can expect from any product).
Sure. Everything in life deserves consideration. But if you're going to allow extremely low percentage events to dictate what you do and don't do, then you will find you cannot/will not do anything. I'm not at any point here throwing caution to the wind. What I'm doing is pointing out that low risk events, while they should be considered, don't condemn a practice on the whole because of the negligence of a few. That was the point of my original response to your article.
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