Tactical Flashlights & Training with Handheld Flashlight
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Bill DeShivs
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If you just want a good, extremely bright, dependable flashlight that runs on common batteries, please view my web site.
Flashlights, in and of themselves, are not, and cannot be tactical. Period. They may be used in a tactical manner, but an inanimate object is not capable of employing any sort of tactics, so therefore it is not tactical. Nor will it ever be.
I can use a toaster in a tactical fashion, does that mean that Colt is going to start marketing tactical toasters? No. Just like I can use a flashlight in a tactical manner, but the flashlight itself has no mechanism (I.e. Brain) with which to make decisions which may be of a tactical purpose.
Yes, it's a pet peeve of mine.
I can use a toaster in a tactical fashion, does that mean that Colt is going to start marketing tactical toasters? No. Just like I can use a flashlight in a tactical manner, but the flashlight itself has no mechanism (I.e. Brain) with which to make decisions which may be of a tactical purpose.
Yes, it's a pet peeve of mine.
3x3x3 rule; white lights & armed citizens or professionals...
I read a few of the recent forum posts here and I'd add this input:
FWIW; most CQB(close quarters) or armed citizen involved events involve what I call the 3x3x3 rule: 3ft 3 fired rounds & 3 seconds. Extended use or long periods of a bright flashlight or white light may expose your position or make the subject(s) aware of your general location but most incidents will end quickly or without the need for long uses of a light source, IMO.
Many high end & LE type units have momentary or brief lights that can cut off in a instant. That is why I prefer the tailcap button models too.
I saw in the new printed catalog of www.Galls.com a new product that creates a bright white light that can aid in use as a distraction device or to blind a violent subject. When you toss the bulbs on the ground, you can run off or have an "avenue of escape". The small lights are pocket size & could be useful in SOME defense/LE/security events.
Tactics instructor & USMC combat veteran Clint Smith described a small product a lot like the white lights sold by Galls.com.
The new strobe features on many flashlights or 1913 rail systems can assist you too in a critical incident.
As posted or taught by many US use of force/tactics programs, it's a smart plan to have a "tactical toolbox".
I read a few of the recent forum posts here and I'd add this input:
FWIW; most CQB(close quarters) or armed citizen involved events involve what I call the 3x3x3 rule: 3ft 3 fired rounds & 3 seconds. Extended use or long periods of a bright flashlight or white light may expose your position or make the subject(s) aware of your general location but most incidents will end quickly or without the need for long uses of a light source, IMO.
Many high end & LE type units have momentary or brief lights that can cut off in a instant. That is why I prefer the tailcap button models too.
I saw in the new printed catalog of www.Galls.com a new product that creates a bright white light that can aid in use as a distraction device or to blind a violent subject. When you toss the bulbs on the ground, you can run off or have an "avenue of escape". The small lights are pocket size & could be useful in SOME defense/LE/security events.
Tactics instructor & USMC combat veteran Clint Smith described a small product a lot like the white lights sold by Galls.com.
The new strobe features on many flashlights or 1913 rail systems can assist you too in a critical incident.
As posted or taught by many US use of force/tactics programs, it's a smart plan to have a "tactical toolbox".
FireForged
New member
For all this talk about the word tactical, I will say this. I dont really care to use the word much and for the most part it has become a marketing buzz word. However, the word tactical simply mean that the subject ie.. light, rifle stock or laser etc is condusive to the performance of a specific tacitc. Can a flashlight by definition be tactical.. sure
Heck, if they had tactical jump-suits in 1919, I am sure that a some specific flashlights in 2011 can be considered the same.
Heck, if they had tactical jump-suits in 1919, I am sure that a some specific flashlights in 2011 can be considered the same.
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No.
As I have said numerous times in many threads; inanimate objects are incapable of acting upon, or making, a goal-specific decision. See the definition I posted above.
Flashlights (along with other inanimate objects) are not tactical in and of themselves. Sure, they can be used for a tactical purpose or they can just be used to find your keys under the couch...
The implication that so many things are tactical is dangerous. Something that is capable of employing decision-making and tactics to achieve a specific goal or objective would (theoretically) also be capable of acting independantly. So then guns could kill people by themselves, and flashlighs would turn on whenever they felt like it. As we all know, this is not the case.
YOU are the tactical piece of the equasion, not your equipment. The equipment requires you to use it in a tactical manner for it to be "tactical". Equipment can not be tactical just lying on a shelf in the garage, not being used by anyone...
I disagree; symantics...
I respectfully disagree. Tactical can be a adjective or describe a tool or method that could both work properly and/or save someone's life.
To argue over symantics or what a word means isn't really related to the topic.
Many forum members here distort posts or remarks then complain about points that clearly explain what the forum member is saying.
ClydeFrog
I respectfully disagree. Tactical can be a adjective or describe a tool or method that could both work properly and/or save someone's life.
To argue over symantics or what a word means isn't really related to the topic.
Many forum members here distort posts or remarks then complain about points that clearly explain what the forum member is saying.
ClydeFrog
My agency trains 3 techniques: FBI, Harries and Chapman. The FBI technique is what you described, holding the light off to the side or above with a one-handed grip on the handgun. The other techniques are two-handed firing positions, with Harries having your hands crossed back-to-back, while the Chapman has you holding the light alongside your weapon.
They are all valid techniques, with the choice being made by the situation and/or the location of the switch on the flashlight. The FBI techniques is good for searching, with the Harries or Chapman used when actually engaging.
My agency allows weapon lights, but I don't have one on my handgun. I think I will have a flashlight out anyway, and would need to fumble with it to put it away (or drop it, I guess) when drawing my weapon. Also, we train to use the support hand only to activate the switch, which tends to negate the advantage of having a one-handed system. I could see using a weapon light for a specialized application (like a K-9 or boat handler assignment), but think they generally belong only on long guns.
I think most self-defense handgun use in low light will be point shooting, but, that said, night sights are an advantage if you end up in a situation where you have the chance to aim. It's easy to shoot the target with your light beam, while your handgun is pointed off to the side. I've even heard that it is best to point your flashlight off target, so that you use a proper aiming technique with your weapon.
Practice using your light, at least so you get used to the manipulations. What are you going to do with the light during a mag change or malfunction?
They are all valid techniques, with the choice being made by the situation and/or the location of the switch on the flashlight. The FBI techniques is good for searching, with the Harries or Chapman used when actually engaging.
My agency allows weapon lights, but I don't have one on my handgun. I think I will have a flashlight out anyway, and would need to fumble with it to put it away (or drop it, I guess) when drawing my weapon. Also, we train to use the support hand only to activate the switch, which tends to negate the advantage of having a one-handed system. I could see using a weapon light for a specialized application (like a K-9 or boat handler assignment), but think they generally belong only on long guns.
I think most self-defense handgun use in low light will be point shooting, but, that said, night sights are an advantage if you end up in a situation where you have the chance to aim. It's easy to shoot the target with your light beam, while your handgun is pointed off to the side. I've even heard that it is best to point your flashlight off target, so that you use a proper aiming technique with your weapon.
Practice using your light, at least so you get used to the manipulations. What are you going to do with the light during a mag change or malfunction?
My local PD; weapon lights, holsters....
In my metro area, most of the patrol officers in the PD(800+ sworn LE officers) I see carry the issue P226R 9x19mm or .40 with a tactical light in Safariland SFS/ALS type holsters day & night.
Weapon light or white light systems are a choice for many but there are a lot of benefits in some events, IMO.
Clyde
In my metro area, most of the patrol officers in the PD(800+ sworn LE officers) I see carry the issue P226R 9x19mm or .40 with a tactical light in Safariland SFS/ALS type holsters day & night.
Weapon light or white light systems are a choice for many but there are a lot of benefits in some events, IMO.
Clyde
FireForged
New member
well said.
Good grief!
A tactical flashlight is simply a light with a design making it easier to use in a TACTICAL SITUATION--that is, deployed with the gun so you can ID targets and see to shoot. It can be used to check the dark recesses of parking garages and stairwells, etc., etc.,---borderline (possible) tactical situations.
Now, take mine for example (I like the plain 'ol SureFire 6P). It doesn't deploy istself independently. I make the decisions--not the dang light. It's with me at all times.
And yes, it can be used in non tactical situations to find my lost car keys, or shine at speeding cars when you're in the X walk at night, etc.
Implying that it's a tactical instrument is NOT dangerous to anything or anybody. Implying that it ISN'T makes no one any safer.
And I wouldn't call it's ability to turn itself on in your pocket as decision making---so don't go there.
Where's my chill pills? OK, I feel better now.
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anonimoose
New member
To those skeptics, may I ask if your opinion about flashlights changes if:
1. One were to use the strobe function? I see two benefits: a. it's a bit more disorienting for the enemy and b. it's not as easy to "track" the beam of light back to the good guy
2. One were to use a pressure switch instead of a constant on/off button? Given the (generally) accepted superiority of Crimson Trace lasergrips vs. their competitors which have the on/off at the trigger guard, I could see how something like this:
or this:
Would allow for more control/responsiveness.
very respectfully,
Moose
1. One were to use the strobe function? I see two benefits: a. it's a bit more disorienting for the enemy and b. it's not as easy to "track" the beam of light back to the good guy
2. One were to use a pressure switch instead of a constant on/off button? Given the (generally) accepted superiority of Crimson Trace lasergrips vs. their competitors which have the on/off at the trigger guard, I could see how something like this:
or this:
Would allow for more control/responsiveness.
very respectfully,
Moose
I carry a Surefire E2D LED. Dual output, 15/200 lumens. Tail-cap button. If I'm using it with my pistol, I use the harries technique (instead of FBI technique--which is what the salesman was talking about).
It's great for civilian use since I can illuminate people without pointing a weapon at them, and the harries technique provides decent support if I have to search and shoot.
YMMV. Get a quality LED flashlight and be done with it.
It's great for civilian use since I can illuminate people without pointing a weapon at them, and the harries technique provides decent support if I have to search and shoot.
YMMV. Get a quality LED flashlight and be done with it.
Anyone else noticed that you can't get the 4, 5, or 6 C-cell maglights anymore? They were my favorite because they more resemble the diameter of a billy club than the D-cell lights.
The last 2 I had somehow blew up or melted or something. I mean the batteries inside did this.
But try to find one now. They're impossible to find.
The last 2 I had somehow blew up or melted or something. I mean the batteries inside did this.
But try to find one now. They're impossible to find.
Those that say a Flashlight is not part of Tactical simply have no clue, or need to lay-off the cool-aid.
The hand-held or gun-mounted flashlighs are a very important tool and factor in self defence techniques.
When Needed - The LED Flashlight is used by all Law Enforcement, FBI, Secret Service, Navy Seal, Cammando Forces, etc etc etc......
They are trained with useing the LED Flashlight.
A Hi-Lumens Brightness - It's main function in extream darkness is to sudden Blind/distort the vision of an assailant.
The hand-held or gun-mounted flashlighs are a very important tool and factor in self defence techniques.
When Needed - The LED Flashlight is used by all Law Enforcement, FBI, Secret Service, Navy Seal, Cammando Forces, etc etc etc......
They are trained with useing the LED Flashlight.
A Hi-Lumens Brightness - It's main function in extream darkness is to sudden Blind/distort the vision of an assailant.
Checkout the video on personaldefensenetwork.com
Rob makes a ton of vital points on the use of a rail-mounted light and a handheld. I personally use a hand held Sure Fire G2. I can use the hand held by utilizing indirect focus so I can identify my target as a threat or not and have enough illumination to make a precision shot.
I have even made it a point to carry a flashlight as a part of my EDC set-up. Even in the daytime. Recently, here we have had a shooting in a movie theater. I'm sure a lot of people wish they had a flashlight then. A Streamlight Stylus Pro is small enough to clip in a pocket and bright enough for most indoor uses.
Rob makes a ton of vital points on the use of a rail-mounted light and a handheld. I personally use a hand held Sure Fire G2. I can use the hand held by utilizing indirect focus so I can identify my target as a threat or not and have enough illumination to make a precision shot.
I have even made it a point to carry a flashlight as a part of my EDC set-up. Even in the daytime. Recently, here we have had a shooting in a movie theater. I'm sure a lot of people wish they had a flashlight then. A Streamlight Stylus Pro is small enough to clip in a pocket and bright enough for most indoor uses.
Tactical light.
---I know this is an old post, but it is a popular one and there are a few things I felt led to address.---
First off, if you are against using a flash light in any circumstances, and are bent on "knowing the dark areas of the house and shooting at back-lit silhouettes." I do have some issue with that, if you are able to fully assess the situation, whether by listening to conversations or watching the intruder's actions very carefully, then you may be able to be somewhat confident in your decision. I would just hate to be the one that dispatches of his drunk neighbor who pulled into the wrong drive, and thought he was locked out. But every situation is different. Castle law may cover you legally, but that doesn't mean you're right.
Also, I agree in that I feel the question was limiting. Why not have both, it would have to be a pretty big bump in the night for me to grab my gun as a first option to check on my kids. I have multiple flashlights in my bedroom. I do have one mounted on my handgun, but would grab my surefire hand held as a first option. As long as it's powerful enough and the batteries are charged, have it all accessible.
Last of all, for the pet peeve of using tactical incorrectly, Really?? First off, tactical can be used as an adjective, second, why would you deviate from the question? Even if it was incorrect, he's looking for input on a decision, not for acceptance into grammar school. You understood what he was asking, and if not you need a lesson in communication. I guess we're now onto one of my pet peeves.
Anyway, I would agree with having many options at your disposal. I completely back the fact that spending the extra money, will be well worth it when your life or someone else's may hang on the dependability and power of your tools, whether that is a flashlight, a gun, or the locks on your door.
-Mike
---I know this is an old post, but it is a popular one and there are a few things I felt led to address.---
First off, if you are against using a flash light in any circumstances, and are bent on "knowing the dark areas of the house and shooting at back-lit silhouettes." I do have some issue with that, if you are able to fully assess the situation, whether by listening to conversations or watching the intruder's actions very carefully, then you may be able to be somewhat confident in your decision. I would just hate to be the one that dispatches of his drunk neighbor who pulled into the wrong drive, and thought he was locked out. But every situation is different. Castle law may cover you legally, but that doesn't mean you're right.
Also, I agree in that I feel the question was limiting. Why not have both, it would have to be a pretty big bump in the night for me to grab my gun as a first option to check on my kids. I have multiple flashlights in my bedroom. I do have one mounted on my handgun, but would grab my surefire hand held as a first option. As long as it's powerful enough and the batteries are charged, have it all accessible.
Last of all, for the pet peeve of using tactical incorrectly, Really?? First off, tactical can be used as an adjective, second, why would you deviate from the question? Even if it was incorrect, he's looking for input on a decision, not for acceptance into grammar school. You understood what he was asking, and if not you need a lesson in communication. I guess we're now onto one of my pet peeves.
Anyway, I would agree with having many options at your disposal. I completely back the fact that spending the extra money, will be well worth it when your life or someone else's may hang on the dependability and power of your tools, whether that is a flashlight, a gun, or the locks on your door.
-Mike
Frank Ettin
Administrator
No reason to resurrect this old thread.
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