sword [or other non projectile weapon] vs handgun

Well in the US it probably isn't a real concern. But if your willing to consider a machete as a sword then
it does happen in parts of Central & South America. In many places only the rich or privileged can afford
or display guns. But the common man can carry a blade, at least some of the time.

In college I met a fellow gun nut from one such location that had been more than a little influenced by
Cooper. He used a 1911, in 38 Super due to the laws of the land, to deal with a person that was acting
crazy and wouldn't drop the machete.

I majored in Anthropology & my favourite prof had spent a lot of time in South & Central America & had
a few stories to tell about the locals, who where hired to help with the digs, pulling machete's on each
other. From what I gathered about their mindset I think they would not have backed down from someone
just because they only had a blade on their hip & the other guy had a gun.
 
PaladinX13, I'm dubious about the reality of any "Showdown At High Noon". I brought it up mostly to speak to the time/speed/distance factors...

With the proverbial light jacket, a fairly long knife can radily be concealed. From a legal standpoint, "The Law" seems less excited by knives than by guns. Anytime psychology can be made to work in your favor...

Spectre, I agree with you in many ways on the relative incapacition times. Just to waste time on what-if, if a couple of lucky shots center both shoulder joints of the swordsman...and all that BS. :) Gotta go with what you know; I have 50 years with a pistol and zero time with an edged weapon.

Regards,

Art
 
Art,

Look me up, if you're ever coming through GA. I'd love to spend a little time with this, see what we could learn.

Paladin,

As I mentioned, sticks of the same length as swords can be carried almost anywhere, as can umbrellas. True enough, neither of these are typically used to cut, but their lack of edge is evened out by their additional versatility as trapping tools- ie, one can readily grab one's own stick to affect a technique, whereas grabbing the blade of one's own sword takes considerably more care. Also, carrying a stick or umbrella means one has nothing to draw- the weapon is already out, ready to bring into play.
 
Okay, lemme repeat that it is NOT my argument that knives, sticks, canes, swords, machete, etc. are not used in self-defense or by criminals against guns (being used in self-defense or an attacker). Art hit it on the head, when he describes it as a Showdown... that's where I doubt the usefulness of this experiment.

Most of the examples being cited would better be served by an experiment using simunitions and bokken in a kill house, open space, etc. Quite a bit different than two drawing for the camera, or even against each other with a third party shouting "DRAW!"

Art, I live in the Republic of New Jersey where CCW is a rare as hen's teeth, I'm also a bigger collector of knives than firearms- but I can honestly say that the police here get excited enough over a pocket knife that you might as well have a so-called "assault rifle" strapped to your back. I'm a big guy that doesn't need a 3 inch piece of steel to harm or hurt anyone, but somehow that makes me dramatically more dangerous in their eyes. Um, sorry... rant mode off. ;)
 
Spectre, I'll most likely head back to Thomasville around May 5th-ish, and will make it to the Jawgia TFL gathering, if it comes off and the date works...

PaladinX13, I've flown to Germany a couple of times, to visit my son. Airport security looks all wampus-eyed at my Swiss Army pocket knife, and with puzzlement at my little 1-1/2" Gerber--it's a "lockback", doncha see. (They even get nervous at the zoom lens on my camera.)

One of the things I like about my little chunk of SW Texas: Some ATV-ers pulled in to the Lajitas Trading Post. They had western-style pistol belts/guns. A deputy who just happened to be there pointed out they probably oughtn't to "tote" inside as alcoholic beverages were sold there. They unholstered, set the revolvers on the bench next to the deputy, went in and got beers and came out and sat down to visit...He grinned, they drank, finished, got their guns, "saddled up" and rode away.

Works for me!

:), Art
 
re: canes & " their lack of edge"

Spectre,

Canes lacking edge might only be a matter of degree.

While my CaneMasters.Com cane does not have a razor sharp edge, it does have a sharp striking edge that will break skin and bone if properly applied.

It also has a very sharp point on the horn that, if applied with sufficient force, would easily penetrate soft tissue such as throats or bellies.

While is does yeoman work supporting my rapidly worsening knees, it is designed primarily as a weapon and secondarily as a support.

Check http://www.canemasters.com out and give Master Mark Shuey a call to discuss canes.

Feel free to mention me as a happy customer.

Doc Hudson
 
There was a guy in Austin, Texas, Jerry Robinette, who taught unarmed self-defense as well as s-d pistol and, germane to this thread, the use of the cane. I don't know if he's still going, since he's probably older than I am; possibly his sons...He was one of those USAF guys of the 1950s who was stationed in Japan, and got black belts in Everything.

At any rate, the things a trained "caner" can do are absolutely devastating! Robinette's demonstrations made a believer out of me...

Oh, well. For that matter, don't get goosey with a guy on crutches. Talk about reach! And he's still tripod-balanced!

:), Art
 
For a fun treatment of the topic at hand (gun versus sword), check out an Akira Kurosawa movie called "Yojimbo," starring Toshiro Mifune.

It was later re-made by Walter Hill a la 1920's USA in "Last Man Standing" with Bruce Willis.

Skorzeny
 
:)

Be nice to make it to the GA meet. Sensop and Edmund Rowe are good people- even if Sensop's on the crochety side! :D
 
I thought "Last Man Standing" was a remake of "A Fistful of Dollars"?

I would like to see a house clearing exercise with some of the Goblin's armed with Shinai, don't think using bokken's are a good idea for force on force!!!

I think that having a swordfighter going against a gunfighter at close range using shinai & simunitions makes sense. Not because it is likely to happen that way in the real world, but because one would start to get an idea of what techniques might work up close, where most events occur. If you want to make it more realistic just have the Goblin start with weapon in hand and the "goodguy" with weapon in a concealed holster say a IWB with covering garment or a pocket holster.
 
Glamdring, digressing again--as I do so well--ain't it a shame that the Good Guy must, by law, be so handicapped as to have his own weapon in concealment, in an awkward position for ready use? Further, that we here in these discussions take it for granted that such be the case?

Grumble, gritch...

Art
 
Glamdring, I was under the impression safety equipment was being worn (even a Shinai can seriously hurt) so I figured bokken was a better choice... more similar handling characteristics, plus you could paint the edge for markings in the way simunitions will leave a print. If no "armor" then I'd still opt for a weighted foam bokken over a shinai for safety and the edge painting... try painting a shinai and you'll get a big smear on your target! :)

Hell, I'd propose a safe version of this as an alterative to paintball! Simunitions ought to be an airsofter's dream while swordsmen get to play out their fantasy of taking out a gunmen with only his blade. ;)
 
fukero (sp?) shinai are what we typically use. These are softer, and covered with leather. They can still cut/injure if you strike in the face, though- one person I know of got a detached retina doing sword on sword drills...
 
paladinx13 - just as a point of reference concerning how "deadly" bokken are...in the later part of his life, musashi fought duels, against men with swords, using only bokken rather than his katana. bear in mind that duels usually ended in death back then.

question for all - is it really illegal to carry a sword, in a sheath, in public? in CA we have laws about concealable guns and knives (loaded/unloaded, size, opening method, disguised...), but a sword is not considered a "concealable weapon".

are there different or specific laws that cover the carry of swords in public...

should this properly be another thread? moderators?
 
I'm aware of the legendary Musashi's exploits with a "mere" wooden sword (or even a broken oar at one point), but his opponents weren't wearing Kendo safety equipment or Kydex armor. The shinai I'm familiar with will leave a serious open welt so I figure safety gear is a must either way...
 
I don't have it in front of me, but I think Texas law even gets into "if it could be used as a weapon" in its prohibitions. (Possibly "intent" is included; don't remember.)

In Texas, swords "on the street" are a no-no, sheathed or not.

Art
 
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