Swimming with weapon and combat load?

J

Josh D

New member
Has anyone out there ever swam with a combat load( 7lb rifle, underwear, tshirt, BDU shirt, BDU trousers, socks, combat boots, gloves or not, hat, suspenders, pistol belt, pistol, 6- 30rnd mags loaded, 2 canteens full, butt pack, knife, etc.)? Is it even possible? I don't really want to do this, but I would like to know just in case.

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We're on the express elevator to hell, goin' down!
 
There was a story in the news a few weeks ago about a cop that jumped into a river wearing his full gear to chase a bad guy. He sank.

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(!)
 
Something very much like that is given to all prospective Ranger school canidates. It's called the "Combat Water Survival Test" or words to that effect. It's been 20 years since I took it, but some of the steps were a 50 m swim in BDUs, walking off a 10 foot tall diving board backwards while blindfolded, and swiming some distance with the gear you descibed. (no pistol, no knife, no loaded mags)

If I had to swim for some reason, I would take the web gear off and make some sort of flotation device to support it.

If I was in a big hurry, the web gear would be on my list of non-essentials..

Giz

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"Shoot low boys, they're riding Shetland ponies..." LG, RIP



[This message has been edited by Gizmo99 (edited July 03, 1999).]
 
I read somewhere that a significant portion of the US fatalities in the WWII landing on Omaha Beach were due to drownings. Some of the landing craft would offload the men too early and they would sink.

Koski
 
Wasnt it our invasion of Granada were a team of SEALS were dropped off of the coast with excessive weight and they drowned.....the weather could have been a factor there........use flotation devices or leave it behind...fubsy.
 
Unless they changed it, all Marine recruits must do this in basic training. Rifle, Kevlar, full pack, the whole bit. No ammo, though, and no bayonet. The trick is to pack the pack so that everything is inside waterproof bags, then the whole pack floats and you can use it for flotation. Kevlar is actually pretty light in water, but I understand it doesn't work when it's waterlogged.

We also had to do a survival bit where we used our uniform to make floatation with- remember the Marine that got knocked off his aircraft carrier a little while back. That training really works. While I know they were doing it in the early 80's(from personal experience), I don't know if they still do or not. Hope this helps.
 
Yes the Marines are still doing it. 2 weeks ago my recruiter brought out a couple of DIs from San Diego and they put my DEP through the Combat Water Survival course at the local Y. Just about everything floats, your flak jacket and Alice pack will both float forever, and your BDUs can be filled with air to make flotation devices. I jumped into the pool with a 50 lb pack, vest, BDUs, boots and Kevlar helmet and had no problem staying afloat.
 
striker 3 and others,
Having been there and done that I need to sound off with a word of caution. While it is true that one will float (initially anyway) with all of this gear on, the problem comes in if you have to stay afloat for a while. Most Military "combat swim tests/water survival tests" are somewhat...........screwed up. The problem is that in many cases there is no ammo in the magazine pouches, much less magazines. Canteens are usually empty, yeah people do cheat on these things, they should be at least half full if you want to be realistic. And so on. What happens is that initially there is a lot of air trapped inside of the BDU's, ruck, ammo pouches, etc. But after a while this air escapes and you tend to......well, sink. Usually there is enough time to get to shore, if for example you where running patrols on the Chagres (sic) river in Panama. Or there is enough time for one of your buddies to help you out of the water. But if for example you are doing a wet "river/water crossing" then it is definitely advisable to construck some type of a raft (poncho raft) and float your gear accross.

Personally if I fell into the water and was by myself and shore was more than 10 meters or so away, I would start dumping gear. Starting with my helmet :-)

Regards,
(A sometimes longwinded)
Rob

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It's amazing what a large group of stupid people can accomplish.
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Dont try this at home kids...

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Every man Dies.
Not Every Man Truely Lives...

FREEDOM!

RAGE AGAINST THE MACHINE
 
Use good swim fins (over your boots) and an inflatable floatation device. Tons of resistance working against you.

When you get out of the water, your cargo pockets stay filled with about a gallon apiece and if you tucked your pant legs into you boots, add another gallon or so.
 
I watched a guy walk off a boat dock on our local reservoir a couple of years ago while wearing hip boots to demonstrate how well a Stearn's personal flotation device works. The boots are still on the bottom of the lake.
 
Bushmaster,

You are exactly right! You line your Alice pack with your Willy Peter bag ( Water Proof Bag ) and then pack your gear into the bag. There is enough air trapped within the bag even when crammed full to allow it to float. Also Wet BDUs will hold air ( Somewhat ). You can remove your blouse, tie the sleeves together at the ends, put them around your neck and inflate by gripping a piece of the matterial between your front teeth and exhaling through the fabric. Also a hasty 2 man floatation device can be made with by using your ponchos and alice packs.

Chuck
 
At one point in the Army I had to do that, I don't remember the exact gear list, but it was a bunch of gear, I assure you. I was told the waterproof bag trick ahead of time, so I was in good shape as far as winking was concerned.. or so I thought. The ruck is on your back, which means that your BACK floats. Once I got to a position I could breathe in, getting around was still not very easy.

I agree that dumping gear is a good idea. Not sure if I was advised this or if I just saw it in a movie.. but taking the ruck off and using it as a floatation device, and to rest your weapon on, is a viable option, if you have properly "inflated" it.

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-Essayons
 
Ah yes, "Drown Proofing" I remember it well.

First off, Flak Jackets don't float. They sink, quite well in fact. So does LBE, your boots, your clothes, and your rucksack, and especially your rifle. HOWEVER, when properly waterproofed, your rucksack can be used as a floatation device, I know from experience: My 100 pound rucksack (containing the SINGARS and some other special-e) kept me afloat for a good day of amphibious operations at Ft. Leonard Wood. Heck, it was so buoyant that it rode high in the water, and made one hell of a poncho raft with me and my swim buddy.

You can swim for a short distance in full gear, minus the flak jacket. When I say full gear, I mean with boots, BDU's, LBE, and rifle. It isn't easy, but it isn't super hard either. What will kill you is your ruck sack if it isn't waterproofed. That sucker will drag you right down.

The important thing is to train and actually perform the task, because the experience helps you.

Spark

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Kevin Jon Schlossberg
SysOp and Administrator for BladeForums.com
www.bladeforums.com
 
Spark,
When they showed us the stuff one kid asked if the Flak jacket floated and so the DIs soked it and left it floating in the pool for the 2 hours that we were there. So it does have buoyancy and every little bit helps.
 
Hey Spark them water ops at Ft. Lenardwood wouldn't happen to be part of the Sapper Leader Course would it? That is were I had the opertunity to swim the Lake of the Ozarks in November with Ruck, BDU's & LBE .

Later
Daren
 
There was also a method of filling BDU pants with air, by tying the legs shut and slamming them over your head, waist firs, into the water, then closing the waist.
This created a BDU version of a childs floatation device, which you could theoretically float in for a while. The wet BDUs were surprisingly air tight.
Of course, better hope the fish aren't hungry... ;)
 
My son came out of MCRD San Diego last fall and when visiting him during graduation week he gave a very detailed description of the swim test in full gear. If I remember correctly they had to swim the full length of the pool after jumping in. The big incentive was those who failed had to keep trying. Better to go all the way the first time he said :)
 
You can float with all that stuff, been there done that. Swimming? It's more like a dog paddle. Not very efficient and real damn tiring. I wouldn't do it if I didn't have too!

In Aircrew training, we had to swim a mile in a nomex flightsuit and steel toe flight boots. I would much rather do that than attempt a swim in full 782 gear.

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Dan

Check me out at:
www.mindspring.com/~susdan/interest.htm
www.mindspring.com/~susdan/GlocksnGoodies.htm




[This message has been edited by Dan (edited July 05, 1999).]
 
Darren, damn skippy! My turn was May '94 and I had a blast. Lots of good old fashioned fun.

As for the flak jacket, you can swim in yours if you want, but the amount of buoyancy provided versus the weight and the hindering of motion isn't going to do you any favors.

Did the DI's soak it, then toss it in the water, or did they actually submerge it and show the effects of a person trying to swim with it?

Wear one of the PASGT vests for any length of time and you'll see how much fun it is, much less swimming in one.

Spark

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Kevin Jon Schlossberg
SysOp and Administrator for BladeForums.com
www.bladeforums.com
 
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