Avid Concealer
New member
Good read, very sad. Discuss.
http://www.sun-sentinel.com/news/lo...6aug06,0,2079030.story?coll=sfla-news-broward
http://www.sun-sentinel.com/news/lo...6aug06,0,2079030.story?coll=sfla-news-broward
SWAT shoots unarmed young man. Pistol permit was motivator.
- Thread starter Avid Concealer
- Start date
- Status
Your title seems to indicate that the permit was the motivator for the shooting, which clearly it wasnt. Using SWAT when it is believed that someone is armed is only common sense and standard practice.
I'm sure the truth behind what happened is somewhere in between what each side will say.......
I'm sure the truth behind what happened is somewhere in between what each side will say.......
Edward429451
Moderator
Hmmm. Onw reason not to play the permission game.
Classic coverup line.
Umm, err, welll.
In all likeihood? See how he's sidestepping and backtracking? (They don't talk like that when its a good shoot, period.) I wonder if his family will Id the gun as his? Sounds like they bit off moren' they could chew this time.
Worked two jobs, no record, went and got his ccw pwrmit and what did it all get him? Dead. His CCW permit got him killed.
I know, I know. Isolated incident. Move along. :barf:
I cannot express how absolutely furious I am after reading that article.
If he had a gun, OF COURSE he pointed it at the effing JBTs. Who wouldn't after getting back from work only to have black clad men crashing through one's door?
Good God.
WHO IS GOING TO DO SOMETHING ABOUT THIS?!
IF this thing turns out to be what it smells like, I want heads to roll and bodies in prison.
If he had a gun, OF COURSE he pointed it at the effing JBTs. Who wouldn't after getting back from work only to have black clad men crashing through one's door?
Good God.
WHO IS GOING TO DO SOMETHING ABOUT THIS?!
IF this thing turns out to be what it smells like, I want heads to roll and bodies in prison.
XavierBreath
New member
Just copying the story in case the link goes down.........
SUNRISE · The SWAT team assembled outside Anthony Diotaiuto's home in Sunrise Golf Village early Friday morning, expecting to find drugs and guns, authorities said.
Inside, Diotaiuto had been home for only a few hours after his night shift at one of the two jobs he kept to help pay for the home where he lived with his mother. He had a valid concealed weapons permit and kept a shotgun and a handgun for safety, friends said.
It was about 6:15 when the SWAT team smashed in Diotaiuto's door and shot him dead.
Officers were right to expect him to be armed, said Lt. Robert Voss, spokesman for the Sunrise Police Department.
"He had a gun and pointed it at our officers," Voss said Friday morning. "Our SWAT team fired."
Later Friday afternoon, he didn't sound as certain about whether Diotaiuto, 23, aimed his weapon.
"In all likelihood, that's what happened," Voss said. "I know there was a weapon found next to the body." He also said he did not know if detectives found any drugs or whether Diotaiuto fired any shots.
The shooting outraged and confused Diotaiuto's friends, who said he had no criminal record, was not violent and didn't sell drugs.
Diotaiuto was the third person killed in police-involved shootings in the past three days in South Florida. Earlier Friday, a federal drug agent in West Palm Beach shot and killed a man in an unrelated investigation. And on Tuesday, a Miami police officer killed a drug and alcohol recovery patient after the man pointed a gun at an officer, officials said.
Many of Diotaiuto's friends protested his death Friday afternoon outside his home. His mother, Marlene, collapsed when she heard of her son's death and was too upset to speak, friends said.
"They killed an innocent person," said Charlie Steeves, who said he was Diotaiuto's best friend. "He didn't sell drugs. He worked two jobs to buy that house."
Voss said information about drugs at Diotaiuto's home led to the search warrant. The search warrant was not available Friday and Voss did not know what drugs were suspected or what information the warrant contained.
The concealed weapons permit, was a "major factor" in the department's decision to involve the SWAT team, Voss said.
"The potential for violence was there," Voss said. SWAT officers must knock first and announce their presence, Voss said. If no one answers, the door comes down. "Unfortunately, this is one of those that's gone bad," he said. Diotaiuto worked as a bartender at the Carolina Ale House in Weston and as a DJ on weekends. Steeves said Diotaiuto got the concealed weapons permit because he didn't feel safe coming home from work at 3 a.m. He thinks Diotaiuto panicked when he heard someone break in.
"What would you do if your door was knocked down and you were asleep?" Steeves asked.
Steeves buried his head in his stepfather's shoulder, overcome by grief as friends continued to gather on Friday afternoon.
"I know, I know," comforted the stepfather, Nils Zetterlund. "I would jump in front of a bus for this kid."
Friends said that Diotaiuto attended St. David Catholic Church every Sunday. Steeves said Diotaiuto was the godfather of his 1-year-old son, Thomas.
"This kid is nothing like they're portraying," said Annette Zetterlund, Steeves' mother. "This kid is a gem."
Residents say Diotaiuto's neighborhood was an unlikely target for drug activity.
"It's a quiet neighborhood, but that house has always been trouble," said Susan Mandeville, who wondered about the visitors at Diotaiuto's home at odd hours.
Still, she conceded, "I never thought that they were doing drugs."
The two SWAT officers, whom Voss declined to name, will be placed on routine paid leave while the department and the Broward County State Attorney's Office investigate the shooting.
Staff Writer Lori Sykes and researcher Barbara Hijek contributed to this story.
Brian Haas can be reached at bhaas@sun-sentinel.com or 954-356-4597.
SUNRISE · The SWAT team assembled outside Anthony Diotaiuto's home in Sunrise Golf Village early Friday morning, expecting to find drugs and guns, authorities said.
Inside, Diotaiuto had been home for only a few hours after his night shift at one of the two jobs he kept to help pay for the home where he lived with his mother. He had a valid concealed weapons permit and kept a shotgun and a handgun for safety, friends said.
It was about 6:15 when the SWAT team smashed in Diotaiuto's door and shot him dead.
Officers were right to expect him to be armed, said Lt. Robert Voss, spokesman for the Sunrise Police Department.
"He had a gun and pointed it at our officers," Voss said Friday morning. "Our SWAT team fired."
Later Friday afternoon, he didn't sound as certain about whether Diotaiuto, 23, aimed his weapon.
"In all likelihood, that's what happened," Voss said. "I know there was a weapon found next to the body." He also said he did not know if detectives found any drugs or whether Diotaiuto fired any shots.
The shooting outraged and confused Diotaiuto's friends, who said he had no criminal record, was not violent and didn't sell drugs.
Diotaiuto was the third person killed in police-involved shootings in the past three days in South Florida. Earlier Friday, a federal drug agent in West Palm Beach shot and killed a man in an unrelated investigation. And on Tuesday, a Miami police officer killed a drug and alcohol recovery patient after the man pointed a gun at an officer, officials said.
Many of Diotaiuto's friends protested his death Friday afternoon outside his home. His mother, Marlene, collapsed when she heard of her son's death and was too upset to speak, friends said.
"They killed an innocent person," said Charlie Steeves, who said he was Diotaiuto's best friend. "He didn't sell drugs. He worked two jobs to buy that house."
Voss said information about drugs at Diotaiuto's home led to the search warrant. The search warrant was not available Friday and Voss did not know what drugs were suspected or what information the warrant contained.
The concealed weapons permit, was a "major factor" in the department's decision to involve the SWAT team, Voss said.
"The potential for violence was there," Voss said. SWAT officers must knock first and announce their presence, Voss said. If no one answers, the door comes down. "Unfortunately, this is one of those that's gone bad," he said. Diotaiuto worked as a bartender at the Carolina Ale House in Weston and as a DJ on weekends. Steeves said Diotaiuto got the concealed weapons permit because he didn't feel safe coming home from work at 3 a.m. He thinks Diotaiuto panicked when he heard someone break in.
"What would you do if your door was knocked down and you were asleep?" Steeves asked.
Steeves buried his head in his stepfather's shoulder, overcome by grief as friends continued to gather on Friday afternoon.
"I know, I know," comforted the stepfather, Nils Zetterlund. "I would jump in front of a bus for this kid."
Friends said that Diotaiuto attended St. David Catholic Church every Sunday. Steeves said Diotaiuto was the godfather of his 1-year-old son, Thomas.
"This kid is nothing like they're portraying," said Annette Zetterlund, Steeves' mother. "This kid is a gem."
Residents say Diotaiuto's neighborhood was an unlikely target for drug activity.
"It's a quiet neighborhood, but that house has always been trouble," said Susan Mandeville, who wondered about the visitors at Diotaiuto's home at odd hours.
Still, she conceded, "I never thought that they were doing drugs."
The two SWAT officers, whom Voss declined to name, will be placed on routine paid leave while the department and the Broward County State Attorney's Office investigate the shooting.
Staff Writer Lori Sykes and researcher Barbara Hijek contributed to this story.
Brian Haas can be reached at bhaas@sun-sentinel.com or 954-356-4597.
XavierBreath
New member
I'm thinking the judge who issued that warrant needs to be looked at very closely. Next, the officer who requested the warrant, and finally the informant that fed the police the bogus information.
I cannot begin to express my anger. What is to prevent informants from using the police to make hits and at the very least humiliate their innocent enemies if a little discretion and common sense is not applied? In this case, the SWAT team was doing their job, but so was Anthony Diotaiuto. The judge who issued the warrant failed though. The judge is the last check in a system of checks and balances to prevent this from happening. The blood is on his hands.
I cannot begin to express my anger. What is to prevent informants from using the police to make hits and at the very least humiliate their innocent enemies if a little discretion and common sense is not applied? In this case, the SWAT team was doing their job, but so was Anthony Diotaiuto. The judge who issued the warrant failed though. The judge is the last check in a system of checks and balances to prevent this from happening. The blood is on his hands.
Do I smell a cover up coming?
If the swat team used the tactic of knock very softly and whisper "police open up" and then smash the door down one nano second later, then the death penalty should be applied to the shooters.
My prediction. It will get real quiet, there will be a couple of follow up stories, the police will wait until the press is on to other stories and ignoring this one, then there will be a subrosa hearing for the officers, and the whole thing will just wander off down a dirt road whistling.
If the swat team used the tactic of knock very softly and whisper "police open up" and then smash the door down one nano second later, then the death penalty should be applied to the shooters.
My prediction. It will get real quiet, there will be a couple of follow up stories, the police will wait until the press is on to other stories and ignoring this one, then there will be a subrosa hearing for the officers, and the whole thing will just wander off down a dirt road whistling.
WHY did Law Enforcement enter the house? Seems to me the story skipped a part. It says they expected to find drugs and guns, but why? Was this part of an ongoing investigation or sting? I'd like a little more detail. I do doubt that the entry was made for no reason, but what was that reason?
The idea that they find out about whether a person has a CCW license before serving the warrant, and base their decision to go in with SWAT on that, is patently offensive. It treats CCW holders as though they are people likely to shoot at cops. WHY? Do people who go out and get fingerprinted, background-checked, photographed, trained and licensed have a penchant for wanting to shoot at cops? Does that fit the 'profile'?
Besides, in Florida and many other places, people can have guns -- loads of them -- without having a CCW license. Absence of a CCW license on someone's record is NOT tantamount to an assurance that they don't have guns! I would have thought that SWAT would proceed cautiously regardless of whether or not the target has a CCW license, because of this obvious fact.
Folks, this is more public brainwashing designed to get people to think along with the cops, "Gee, the guy had a CCW license? Must be a dangerous criminal dude hidin' up in that house! Easy to see why they had to shoot him! Good riddance!"
We all know that BATF, FBI, local cops, all screw up and raid the wrong house -- even once is too many times. So we all wonder how we'd react to such a raid coming down on us. Many of us feel that we would be shooting, as it would be impossible to know whether this was a) a real raid b) a common criminal break-in c) a criminal break-in with counterfeit cops wearing counterfeit uniforms and badges... Do you wait around to find out whether they're really cops, or just criminals dressed as cops so as to make you put your guard down? (and then they rob and kill you)
Now it's really reaching me... they killed a CCW holder. It feels like we should be holding a protest march somewhere, to let the public know that CCW is not the mark of Cain!!
We're more to be trusted than your AVERAGE citizen!
-blackmind
Besides, in Florida and many other places, people can have guns -- loads of them -- without having a CCW license. Absence of a CCW license on someone's record is NOT tantamount to an assurance that they don't have guns! I would have thought that SWAT would proceed cautiously regardless of whether or not the target has a CCW license, because of this obvious fact.
Folks, this is more public brainwashing designed to get people to think along with the cops, "Gee, the guy had a CCW license? Must be a dangerous criminal dude hidin' up in that house! Easy to see why they had to shoot him! Good riddance!"
We all know that BATF, FBI, local cops, all screw up and raid the wrong house -- even once is too many times. So we all wonder how we'd react to such a raid coming down on us. Many of us feel that we would be shooting, as it would be impossible to know whether this was a) a real raid b) a common criminal break-in c) a criminal break-in with counterfeit cops wearing counterfeit uniforms and badges... Do you wait around to find out whether they're really cops, or just criminals dressed as cops so as to make you put your guard down? (and then they rob and kill you)
Now it's really reaching me... they killed a CCW holder. It feels like we should be holding a protest march somewhere, to let the public know that CCW is not the mark of Cain!!
We're more to be trusted than your AVERAGE citizen!-blackmind
By the way, don't wait for The Palm Beach Post to run much in the way of a sympathetic story on Mr. Diotaiuto.
They do that for actual criminal scumbag drug dealer murderers (You know the stories that quote the aunt or grandma who raised him... "Tyrone had his troubles in the past, but he was turning his life around. He always had a smile for everybody. He didn't get in no trouble no more. He was good boy. He used to show up with candy and treats for his little nieces and nephews all the time! They murdered our little boy!")
Since it is known that Mr. Diotaiuto had a license to carry a GUN, they will throw him to the wolves and take a big s#!t on him in their stories. Mark my words. He will be treated as though he could easily have been public enemy #1.
But when the cops killed a kid who was driving unlicensed through a schoolyard after he refused a cop's order to step out of the vehicle, they glossed right over the unlicensed operator/disobeying a lawful order thing and got right to the sympathy.
-blackmind
They do that for actual criminal scumbag drug dealer murderers (You know the stories that quote the aunt or grandma who raised him... "Tyrone had his troubles in the past, but he was turning his life around. He always had a smile for everybody. He didn't get in no trouble no more. He was good boy. He used to show up with candy and treats for his little nieces and nephews all the time! They murdered our little boy!")
Since it is known that Mr. Diotaiuto had a license to carry a GUN, they will throw him to the wolves and take a big s#!t on him in their stories. Mark my words. He will be treated as though he could easily have been public enemy #1.
But when the cops killed a kid who was driving unlicensed through a schoolyard after he refused a cop's order to step out of the vehicle, they glossed right over the unlicensed operator/disobeying a lawful order thing and got right to the sympathy.
-blackmind
A CCW protest would be excellent, and I hope the local gun clubs get one organized pronto. Hard to do that from here. How about a CCW write in campaign?
Maybe we could organize a letter writing, phone calling, emailing campaign - send those cards and letters to.....? To who? The State Attorney General?
Maybe we could organize a letter writing, phone calling, emailing campaign - send those cards and letters to.....? To who? The State Attorney General?
TheeBadOne
Moderator
Under discussion on another board.
Under Cover drug buys were the basis for the warrant (he sold dope).
2 Oz of marijuana were recovered at the scene.
As far as being upset by the article, couldn't agree more. Reporters don't report the news, they make it. It's a product, and the more interesting, the more sales.
Under Cover drug buys were the basis for the warrant (he sold dope).
2 Oz of marijuana were recovered at the scene.
As far as being upset by the article, couldn't agree more. Reporters don't report the news, they make it. It's a product, and the more interesting, the more sales.
Now I'm all conflicted.
I don't do drugs, never have, but I don't regard all who choose to do them as evil people.
I disagree with the fact that drugs are illegal. That creates problems; it doesn't solve them. It is anti-freedom to have drugs be illegal.
But this guy was someone who, allegedly, dealt in illegal products AND got a CCW license. THAT makes us all look really really really really bad, and you can bet that the liberal papers in this area (The Palm Beach Post, The Sun-Sentinel, The Miami Herald) will make a serious lot of anti-gun hay out of that.
Now, if he was truly a drug dealer, it's no longer a case of, "Some good citizen was defending his home against unknown intruder or intruders."
It's now, "Drug dealer used 'licensed gun' to defend drug house, and almost shot cops as they served legal warrant against him."
So now even IF the SWAT decision was made because of his CCW license, it's not like we can march to show support for him as a CCW brother. He's been tarred as a criminal, and we can't be seen showing support for a criminal, even if he was needlessly killed.
Tell me, why could the police not arrest him peacefully at either of his TWO JOBS, while simultaneously they could serve the warrant on his empty house during the daytime?!
I think the cops like to shoot people these days. Any excuse will do. What the hell -- we're just civilians.
-blackmind
I don't do drugs, never have, but I don't regard all who choose to do them as evil people.
I disagree with the fact that drugs are illegal. That creates problems; it doesn't solve them. It is anti-freedom to have drugs be illegal.
But this guy was someone who, allegedly, dealt in illegal products AND got a CCW license. THAT makes us all look really really really really bad, and you can bet that the liberal papers in this area (The Palm Beach Post, The Sun-Sentinel, The Miami Herald) will make a serious lot of anti-gun hay out of that.
Now, if he was truly a drug dealer, it's no longer a case of, "Some good citizen was defending his home against unknown intruder or intruders."
It's now, "Drug dealer used 'licensed gun' to defend drug house, and almost shot cops as they served legal warrant against him."
So now even IF the SWAT decision was made because of his CCW license, it's not like we can march to show support for him as a CCW brother. He's been tarred as a criminal, and we can't be seen showing support for a criminal, even if he was needlessly killed.
Tell me, why could the police not arrest him peacefully at either of his TWO JOBS, while simultaneously they could serve the warrant on his empty house during the daytime?!
I think the cops like to shoot people these days. Any excuse will do. What the hell -- we're just civilians.
-blackmind
A Law Enforcement Conundrum
Here is an interesting issue. As it was stated in the article:
""The potential for violence was there," Voss said. SWAT officers must knock first and announce their presence, Voss said. If no one answers, the door comes down. "Unfortunately, this is one of those that's gone bad," he said."
If the entry team knocks, how long does one get to respond? If allowed too much time, and the occupant is a real BG, they most likely will be met by gunfire when the door does come down. So the traditional method for most teams is to knock, announce, take the door, and enter with "adrenaline pouring out their ears", all with a cadence that matches the ticking of most clocks. The conundrum here is "Knock and allow a set amount of time for the occupant to wake up and answer (also to establish resistance)? Or enter with speed to catch the occupant off guard? One runs the risk of killing the occupant and the other will kill cops.
Who makes the choice?
Here is an interesting issue. As it was stated in the article:
""The potential for violence was there," Voss said. SWAT officers must knock first and announce their presence, Voss said. If no one answers, the door comes down. "Unfortunately, this is one of those that's gone bad," he said."
If the entry team knocks, how long does one get to respond? If allowed too much time, and the occupant is a real BG, they most likely will be met by gunfire when the door does come down. So the traditional method for most teams is to knock, announce, take the door, and enter with "adrenaline pouring out their ears", all with a cadence that matches the ticking of most clocks. The conundrum here is "Knock and allow a set amount of time for the occupant to wake up and answer (also to establish resistance)? Or enter with speed to catch the occupant off guard? One runs the risk of killing the occupant and the other will kill cops.
Who makes the choice?
my take based on a couple articles i have read:
guy was a small time dealer.
swat team shows up at 6am. witnesses hear flash bangs and door busting down, but no shouting of 'Police!'.
guy thinks he is being attacked. maybe he owed someone some $$$.
guy pulls gun. swat team shoots him dead.
so ...
are we really to blame the individual members of the swat team? they had a gun pulled on them and they responded as they were trained.
how about whomever authorized a no-knock warrant using the swat team against a small time dealer that had a valid CCW and was most likely known to be armed. does this guy really pose a deadly threat to society? couldn't they have used some better tactics to bring this man to 'justice'?
guy was a small time dealer.
swat team shows up at 6am. witnesses hear flash bangs and door busting down, but no shouting of 'Police!'.
guy thinks he is being attacked. maybe he owed someone some $$$.
guy pulls gun. swat team shoots him dead.
so ...
are we really to blame the individual members of the swat team? they had a gun pulled on them and they responded as they were trained.
how about whomever authorized a no-knock warrant using the swat team against a small time dealer that had a valid CCW and was most likely known to be armed. does this guy really pose a deadly threat to society? couldn't they have used some better tactics to bring this man to 'justice'?
Oooooh, plastic bags and a scale! This guy was living like the Hell's Angels in there! I bet he even had knives in his kitchen!
Seriously, apart from that evil evil pot, WTF is newsworthy about him having plastic bags and a scale? Maybe he packs himself a lunch (hence the bags). Maybe his mom likes to cook (hence the scale).
Instead, these things are treated as de facto proof of criminality.
Our media are accomplices to state-sanctioned murder.
-blackmind
- Status