Suspicious stranger.....

D

DannyO

New member
This is way off topic and a little on the FUDish side but I was wondering what you would do. My wife and I only get out once in a while and for the past few weeks every time we get a break it seems like we end up at the local mall. (no I am not a shopper but we just had a baby so it's gone from maternity clothes to baby clothes etc). Anyway I always like to hit the food court and grab a water and a slice of pizza and being with a pregnant woman we also need to frequent the bathroom. I am one of those people that notices the little things. I catch people carrying a lot I see little things when I'm driving I guess you could say I'm over observant. There is a guy that has been in the food court every time I have been to this mall. He is a white male approx 35 years old, average build, pretty low key type. Well I noticed him our second or third trip and he's never eating, just has a soda and he's always writing in this note book and he ALWAYS moves from table to table to sit near kids. He never talks to them from what I've seen but he's always watching. Sometimes it's boys and girls but mostly it's groups of young girls. Now this mall has your typical security guards and I've seen a few Police officers from time to time. I mentioned it once to a mall security officer who didn't seem to care much. He actually just nodded and said he'd keep an eye out.
My question is next time I'm there should I casually ask him what he's doing sitting in the food court every time I'm at the mall or should I be very direct and tell him I've been watching him and don't like the way things look or should I just go about my business and let Mall Security handle any problem that may arise? It's a very strange situation but it really bothers me to watch this guy moving around staring at kids.

Suggestions? Comments? FUDisms?

------------------
"Some people spend an entire liftime wondering if they made a difference. Marines don't have that problem."
Semper Fi

[This message has been edited by DannyO (edited September 12, 2000).]
 
DannyO, how would you feel if someone came up to you and said, "Hey, I've seen you in the mall at least twice now in the food court and I don't like what I see"?

IMHO, saying anything to or about this man is no different than the liberals saying we need to outlaw guns because "we" might kill someone with them.

For now, live and let live. My .02

CMOS

------------------
NRA? Good. Now join the GOA!

The NRA is our shield, the GOA will be our sword.
 
Let me tell a story on myself. When I was working on a marketing project for my MBA, I had to survey a shopping mall, noting the store mix, traffic patterns, etc. I wandered the mall for maybe 15 minutes, stopping and taking notes quite openly before Mall Security grabbed me, gave me a pat-down and bums-rushed me to the parking lot. They would not listen to my explanation of what I was doing, they simply called me a "security risk".

The guy you keep seeing may be:

A lingustics professor researching teenage speech patterns.

A narc listening in on dope deals.

A novelist taking notes for a juvenile story he's writing.

A guy with tinfoil under his toupee, decoding messages from the Grand Mahonga of the Planet Zarkon.

A perv selecting victims.

Someone who works for the mall, doing customer research.

In any case, you have already mentioned him to Mall Security and there isn't much else you can do. Under no circumstances should you challenge him directly. It's not your job.
 
Gotta go with cmos. Unless he has actually done something or it can be proven that he is conspiring to commit you cant do much just because he behaves suspicioulsy.

It would suck to later find that he raped one of the girls but right now he has done nothing wrong and should be left alone. Security should be observant of suspicious behavior, thats their job.
I imagine I myself look suspicious at times in food establishments based on allways trying to sit near good vantage point like in corner with good field of fire and most times a scowl on my face with my disgust with living in kalifornia.
 
For the record CMOS I have seen him more than two times. He is there every time I am there which has been 4-5 times at least.

I am not trying to give someone a hard time for no reason but I also do not want to hear about a kid getting raped and then seeing this guys face on the news. That is why I asked the question here. I have not approached him and my plan was just to continue to be observant. I was just wondering what other poeple might think / do.


------------------
"Some people spend an entire liftime wondering if they made a difference. Marines don't have that problem."
Semper Fi
 
I agree that I would NOT approach him. But if you are really concerned, start hanging at the mall and REALLY check him out. Follow him to his car and get a license number, just to keep in your files. If the front page ever reads "teen abducted at mall", then you call the police with your info.

Seems an even chance he is a perv or a narc. Pretty sad commentary when you can't tell the difference.
 
It would be interesting to get a peek at what kind of notes he's keeping. Perhaps next time you are there you and your wife can run a little Op on him.

Perhaps you can get your wife to stop and change a diaper or nurse at a table very near him. Give you an excuse to stand around aimlessly for 5 minutes. Might even be able to strike up a conversation. "Sorry but when its time to eat, its time to eat. Hope were not disturbing you. Do you come here often."

If he's legit, no problems, if he's a freak, you'll probably never see him again. If he's a freak and does end up doing something you will be that much better a witness from having had closer contact with him.

P.S. This might be the perfect occasion for the NRA hat and the Glock T-shirt. :)

[This message has been edited by Bullwinkle (edited September 12, 2000).]
 
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by galt:
But if you are really concerned, start hanging at the mall and REALLY check him out. Follow him to his car and get a license number, just to keep in your files. If the front page ever reads "teen abducted at mall", then you call the police with your info.[/quote]

Yes, and 5 witnesses who work in the mall will come forward with statements about a guy meeting your description, following that nice man and those kids around, trying to look inconspicuous. Seemed odd...

Having worked in corporate security, let me make this observation: you told one security guard. You didn't get your message through. To get your statement of concern through, you have to actually get their management "NOTIFIED." How? Easy. Simply drop a short one-paragraph memo off at the mall security office. Said memo should have the description of the man in question, the times that you saw him, and should express that you felt concerned that he was "acting suspiciously." Sign it, date it, show that you have a copy, and address it: "Director of Security, XYZ Mall."

Sounds like a BIG hassle, doesn't it? Actually, it would take less time to bang out on Word or WordPad than you've already spent noting it on this thread. Then, next trip to your mall, just have it tucked in an envelope, and drop by your mall security office. If you're there a fair amount with your wife (and soon, your new baby! Congratulations!), you'll probably want to know where it is, anyway.

WRITTEN memos get Directors fired up. Directors get worker-bees fired up. Finding out what's up with your guy is absolutely under the purview of the Mall Security. Your safety and the safety of your family is a shared responsibility between onsite security, the police (should the mall security get them involved, and yourself.

You probably are just hyper-sensitive. But it's the Security Dept.'s job to approach this guy and politely inquire what he's doing. So how are you hurting anything by asking them to check it out? Answer: you're not.

Best Regards,

L.P.
 
Longpath,
Never thought to look for a security office. I'll do up a little letter and keep it with me. Thanks for the input. I don't want to intrude on someones life but I also don't want to watch as some perv picks out his next victim. Going to the security office should help.

------------------
"Some people spend an entire liftime wondering if they made a difference. Marines don't have that problem."
Semper Fi
 
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by oberkommando: ... It would suck to later find that he raped one of the girls ...[/quote]My take on this is going to be a little bit different from others mainly because I'm a fairly new father (of a 2-year old girl) AND because I recently witnesses an attempted kidnapping / child abduction.

No disrespect to those that do this work, as I did this type of work myself but Mall Security are basicly rent-a-cops working for slightly over minimum wage that fall into two categories: [1] Those that just want to walk around, get paid and not be bothered and [2] Cop-wanna-be's (in my case, I was actually in the police academy training to be a LEO) -- I realize that this is a generalization and does not account for everybody but the majority will fall into one of these two categories and in either case, they are not properly trained or have the legal authority to effectively deal with this type of matter.

I would contact the detectives of the local police and explain exactly what you told us and let them handle it. They might ignore it or decide to check it out themselves. If the guy have illegal motives in mind, being approached by the police will make him think twice because he'll realize that he is now being watched.

I would advise against approaching him yourself. If it was me and I wasn't doing anything illegal, depending on your tone of voice and how you phrased the question, I would either talk your ear off by telling you more information then you would want to hear or I would be rather hostile and give you a lecture on minding your own business.

Additionally, there are a lot of nuts in this world ... <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by David Scott: ... A guy with tinfoil under his toupee, decoding messages from the Grand Mahonga of the Planet Zarkon ...[/quote]... and even though he might not have been doing anything wrong or even have any illegal thoughts in mind, by approaching him, he may now realize that your on to his secret (even though you may not have a clue to what that might be) and he might start following or stalking you. With a wife & child, that is not a situation that you want to put yourself in.

As mentioned, he could be doing nothing wrong but as you said, in the remote chance that he has evil intentions in mind, how would you feel if you could have prevented something bad from happening but didn't? Fast forward 10-15 years ... if someone observes a suspicious stranger in a place that your child frequently goes to, how would you want them to handle the situation?

[This message has been edited by FUD (edited September 12, 2000).]
 
David Scott gave a good deal of possible legitimate reasons for what the guy is doing. Give him the benefit of the doubt. In a very public area like that, he's not likely to be much of a threat.

I'll even give another possible reason: he's an artist. Teachers will often give an assignment to draw people from real life. It's good practice. He may even be a pro, and child models are difficult to find because parents are protective of their children. Children have different proportions from adults. Infants are just freaky looking; all head and no limbs.

Either way, it's kind of a nice mystery. If I were that interested, I'd sneak a peek at what he's writing. He's taking advantage of a public place to watch people, so you can take advantage of the same situation to watch him.
 
Go take his picture - full frontal facial shot. He has no expectation of privacy in a public place. If he sees you do it, and he's got bad motives, he'll hustle out or make a stink with you (might want a witness with you, preferably large and menacing). Get double prints, send one pic along with the memo to the security director.
 
That's pretty confrontational. I have to ask "WHY?"

Just because we carry guns doesn't mean that we should put ourselves in the position to use them....

+++++

I agree that most mall rent-a-cops are low-paid folks that are not "professionals" in the classic sense of the word. (Yes, there are some very professional security people out there, but most of them do not gravitate toward the lower-paying mall security jobs.) However, they are there all day long. They are also charged with the safety of the mall. They literally have nothing better to do than check out suspicious people. This does not actually require a degree from Harvard. :) If their director says, "Keep a close watch on the food court; we've had a report of a suspicious character loitering there, and I want him checked out," can you dream that they won't? Laziness and disdain for the public is one thing, but people fundamentally want to have their bosses believe that they do a good job. The Director's dream is getting to report to the owners of the building that, after good work by his team, they caught a bad guy, and made a visitor happy. The Director is further motivated by fear of liability.

If you can't tell, I'm a big Top-Down kinda guy, when the Bottom-Up method doesn't work. :)
 
From what I've read and been told, this SOUNDS like it could be someone with an abnormal attraction to teenagers. There isn't any way for you to know if he is harmless or dangerous, or if he could become dangerous in the future. To be on the safe side, I'd definitely put something in writing and send it to mall security (preferably by certified mail). Now the mall is liable if something ever happens with this guy. Maybe this will provoke an apropriate response...

It looks like your awareness might have caught something important.
 
This sounds almost too odd to be anything but legit. To do something so blatant and openly in a very public place would almost have to be a guy on an honest mission, or a perv begging to get caught. My guess, as others have stated, is that he's probably doing research of some kind.

What I find most interesting is how we've become a society that's so quick to "profile" a person. And, when we do so, it's always a negative profile. The day I bought my first gun was the day that society decided I was potentially dangerous and that they should keep an extra careful eye on me too. Perhaps it's my resentment of this that compels me to defend all the "suspicious strangers" that we find in our lives every day.

Yes, his behavior certainly seems odd and I understand your concern, but I think we probably all do odd things from time to time (pizza and water? ;)). I don't see where we have a right to demand any official explanation of his actions until he's crossed that line between odd and dangerous. I know, by then it will probably be too late, but that's part of life in a free society. Remember how you feel when someone calls the cops on a person who's (legally) carrying openly in a public place. Remember how you feel when someone demands that you explain "why you feel you need to own a gun?"

I apologize if I'm rambling, but I've got a very bad cold and I'm on my fourth shot of Ny-Quil this afternoon. I'm still stuffed up, but I'm happy :).

Take a good mental picture.
Be a good witness.
Hope that you don't have to be.
 
Pizza and water: he could be a hypoglycemic or diabetic. Have you ever tried to find drinks without sugar without resorting to diet crap? Try it. I dare you to give up simple sugars for one week (fruit juice is FULL of simple sugars). Unless you actually like the taste of aspartame, you'll be drinking a LOT of water.
 
Mikul,

I was just trying to make a little joke. I would never in a million years intend to insult an ailment or disability. My apologies to all if I came across the wrong way.

I also kind of made my own point. I made a judgment without knowing (or even thinking about) all of the possible explanations.

I think I'll have some water with my crow.

What compelled me to reply to this post was this overall tendency on TFL lately to want to jump all over an individual's rights when we want to be the good guys. "...It doesn't matter if I'm wrong if I'm doing it for the right reasons!" "...The safety of the children is more important than the rights of the individual." It's the same "it takes a village" mentality that the anti's and the democrats and the socialists are using in this country today. Maybe I'm seeing phantoms where they don't exist, but it seems a semi-hypocritical trend. DannyO had a legitimate concern and a legitamate question... but some of the suggestions given to him disturb me.

Here's another take on the posted question. Suppose you discovered that your daughter was among the kids that this man was following around the food court. Would you write a registered letter to the mall security office? Would you run home and get your camera? Hell no! You would walk right up to the man right then and there and ask him what he's doing. You'll either get a good answer which will let you walk away knowing that all was right in the world and the man in question would be allowed to keep his dignity. Or, you will get a bad answer therefore giving you a legitimate reason to take action.

I'm just getting tired of people wanting to call in the gestapo just because someone looks a bit strange.
 
You guys are making my point exactly. I try to put myself in both pair of shoes. That's why I asked. If I were the guy sitting there I would not want anyone coming up to me asking me what I was doing. But if I took my kids and a group of friends to the mall and we stopped to eat. I'm sure they would not want to sit with dad so what if I witnessed this guy moving around at different tables watching my kids... I think he would know I was there real quick.

I see the point everyone is making about violating someones right to sit in a public place a do whatever he/she wants. I will drop a letter to the security office and see what happens. Hopefully this guy will disappear.

------------------
"Some people spend an entire liftime wondering if they made a difference. Marines don't have that problem."
Semper Fi
 
One of my kids worked in a food court.
There are poor, alone souls who because of various problems like to see the ebb and flow of humanity. They get something and sit and watch. Maybe they are violent but the odds are lows. I'd tell security and then forget it.

We value the nonobtrusive nature of government as concerns our firearms.

We have had posts from folks who had trouble because they talked about firearms at work.

This guy is minding his own business, has made no overt gestures and you want to let the law loose on him, photograph and harass him.

Let's say I photograph everyone who leaves the range as a potential Columbine killer.
Like that?

Now let's say he is really dangerous and you approach, he might just stop your clock.
Easy to be an Internet commando but when I did counseling years ago, facing someone out of control is damned exciting. You are inside the Tueller radius big time.
 
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by EnochGale: ...
Tueller radius ... [/quote]Despite our differences, I'm always willing to learn ... exactly what is a "Tueller radius"?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top