Suspicious panhandler in the parking lot

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Leake, you're reading what you're watching for rather than what I wrote.

I've never questioned what the young lady thought or did, because that would be against my beliefs. I didn't even question the cop, even though what little has been said about him sounds questionable, at best.

The proper tactical response for just about everything is to drive an Abrams main battle tank and deploy mech infantry into overwatch positions before you make any moves. That will protect you from just about any scenario or trap a civilian in the United States can set up against you. It will even protect you against most police responses, at least for a while.

But it's ridiculous.

So somewhere between the combined arms platoon and "on foot, in a bikini and barefoot", you need to split the hair and decide that this is the point at which the balance is acceptable.

My daughter does not live in fear, because I taught her many, many things other than how to deal with panhandlers. Clearly, we both accept a different point on the scale than what is being promoted here. And we're both cowards.

Furthermore, I don't believe for a second that everyone here does the things that have been listed. (Avoiding all panhandlers, screaming "no" at them, or any of the other testosterone spraying systems mentioned.)

My responses to this thread have not been about the young lady in question, they have been about the ridiculous, fear-based, Sidewalk Commando advice given to a young man with an honest concern.

If the lady feels the need, I suggest classes, and I suggest avoiding male instructors.

I also carry fives (singles if you don't have the means to give fives away) and they go a long ways towards dealing with panhandlers. But that's me, and it's not the way everyone does it, nor is it the way everyone can do it.
 
There's a lot of scammers out there, we never know. I don't have a problem with giving two-three dollars here and there but if a person comes up to me and try's to use the intimidation card, I'll give him 15. 15 rounds pointed straight at his face. I'm glad where I live I've never seen anyone asking for money. I guess they know if they did they'd get treating this way if they acted up so the best way would be to move to the city and prey on the weak (some people).
 
I work in a downtown area where there was a rash of muggings and flash mobs last summer. A lot of people at my work have to walk to and from work to get to public transit at night time or early morning.

I actually got worried enough about my female coworkers to hand out a cans of pepper spray + cs and teach them how to use it. They seemed really comfortable with the idea when I showed them the pink key-chain holsters and told them that what I was holding wasn't a weapon. I asked them do you think a skunk is dangerous? How much do you respect a skunk? If I had one here, how close would you want to be to it? Would you want to make it angry?

I told them they should think like a skunk. A skunk avoids trouble, if it sees you, it turns and keeps moving away but it keeps track of where you are. If you corner a skunk it goes from pacifist to intimidating, telling you to back the #@$%-off. If you don't take the warning, it uses its spray and doesn't stick around for another second. Be that skunk!

They all accepted one and were actually eager to learn how to use it.

I taught them how to protect their face, hold their breath, spray face + chest, toss the can, and run away. I explained how tossing the can made it hard to catch them and and use it against them, how even if they didn't get a perfect shot off, that running away would give the tear gas a chance to blur the vision and make it hard to give chase while choking and coughing. That having used it and escaped, they now had the responsibility to protect their sisters by calling the cops giving a description and letting them know they were covered in UV die.

They wanted me to bring more in, which I did.
 
...but if a person comes up to me and try's to use the intimidation card, I'll give him 15. 15 rounds pointed straight at his face. ...
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Clearly that is a disproportionate response.

There's clearly more than one opinion on appropriate response. Whatever your opinion is, I suggest thoroughly running the scenario(s), just as you would in a shooting scenario. Remaining safe and alive with your property intact while being less than friendly with a good guy beats being hurt, dead or having your property stolen while being repeatedly courteous to a bad guy.


Sgt Lumpy
 
Not to mention the opposite: get rude enough with a panhandler and you might turn a non-event into a shooting.
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Now you're getting more and more silly. Sounds like you're now blaming the victim.

If telling a panhandler NO turns the event into a shooting, that pretty much proves that the guy isn't an innocent and wonderful guy. There's some instability there. And it's NOT on the part of the victim.

Look, if someone's begging, he might be a nice guy but he's at the lowest point in his psyche, short of being dead. Here's a guy in survival mode, with no place to sleep and not sure when he'll eat next. Suggesting to an 18 y/o girl or to anyone that it's ok to engage the guy or worse, take out your wallet and start flashing currency, is just plain running against the grain of all kinds of common sense survival.

It's not a zombie response to tell a person, strongly, NO. It's a wise, safe, and overwhelmingly recommended response. It's a response that I can pretty much guarantee is taught by every self defense instructor, woman's awareness class and recommend by every police agency in the universe.

I think, Jammer, you're kind of arguing just for the sake of arguing. That's ok, I guess. You have the right to suggest to your loved ones whatever it is you want in terms of their personal safety. My suggestions are clearly a lot more proactive and safety oriented.

Happy that it's me that teaches the one's I love how to deal with something like ths.


Sgt Lumpy
 
publius said:
I visit Waco, TX often
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I haven't been to Waco in a while, but two must-stops in that town are the Texas Ranger Museum, and there's this ratty old steakhouse outside of town, (can't recall its name) that serves a magnificent steak. It might be time to crank the truck and head west, see what new displays the Rangers have up, and get a good steak.
 
If you think Waco is a hotbed of homelessness you should try SF or Portland.

Look- some good points in this thread. I think:

Be firm, but polite. Preserve what dignity this person might have remaining. I always use a flat "no thanks". Note how I typed that out. Not "NO THANKS!"- just a flat, level, "no thanks". Don't elaborate. Our business is concluded. Farewell. I mean- do you do everything that anybody tells you to do? Really? Healthy boundaries and all that....

I'm pretty sure how *we* respond can influence how they will respond. Life is full of lessons like that. Are we really letting the urchin decide what the next step is? JammerSix isn't blaming the victim- he's making a very, very fine point that I think many people miss.

WallMart parking lots are full of low-level scammers like this. Most of these types aren't even truly homeless- they're living locally, or motel-dwelling, and their panhandling pays the rent. If we had to assign a real number to the percentage of those folks who are real opportunistic criminals- what do we suppose that number is? 2% ? Annoyance? High. Real risk? Low.

By the way- your daughter did just fine. At the end of the day she went home, nobody had to go to the emergency room to get the interocular pressure in their left eye checked...a security guard had to walk to the parking lot- oh well.

And guys- if we're really that concerned about the ladies in our lives- please remember the statistics on who is most likely to assault them. It's someone they know. Not a stranger.
 
One of the past ladies in my life was assaulted as a child by someone she knew - a vagrant her minister father had taken in. Charity is fine, but even "2%" is a risk.

As far as how I respond to panhandlers, I will normally start with direct eye contact and a polite but firm, "No thanks."

If the panhandler gets more assertive, but not implicitly aggressive, I will point out that last I looked, military recruiters were hiring; or, "yeah, the economy sucks, I just got back from Afghanistan."

That usually gives them a hint, if the first "no thanks" did not suffice.

So far, I have not even had to use the Sicilian glare I inherited from my mother's side.
 
The woman did good but what's good? She went to store and asked officer to walk her out. She could have walked out alone but just because she was not injured we say "She did good". What if she was attacked? What would we say? Glad it worked out but I'm guessing she had no plan, well maybe run. She still needs some training in case it goes south the next time. There will be a next time!
 
She did the right thing as the outcome shows, I don't see what else she could or should have done


No. I would have told her whatever she did was fine, because she was there and I wasn't.

If she asked the cop for help, that was fine.

If she gave the guy money, that was fine.

And if he's laying dead with a full magazine in him, that's fine, too
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You would have thought it was fine if you daughter shot someone for approaching her something that she could end up in jail for.

PS I doubt if similar happened to my wife here she would even tell me as she would not see it as threatening.
 
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I don't see where she did anything special. I mean she said no and walked away -wow she did exactly as trained, she did good. ? Yea she did good she walked away! What would she of done if he grabbed her arm? Maybe scream - wow you did good again. What if it were a dark parking lot no cameras or people?- you can't be paranoid , have to keep your cool and think and act. Everytime you don't always have the option to leave or have someone to run to or.... Sometimes you may have to use something's you learned and trained for whether it be grab OC spray and use it, maybe just grab it, maybe grab your gun and sometimes maybe even use it. Even though I'm a police officer in a small town things do sometimes happen after you say no and try to leave. Have calls all the time when people don't have a plan and have to take what they get then report it. We have to have a plan/s for when things go wrong. This world is very far from being perfect. You may have a plan ands train and a situation may still go bad on you but sometimes it just happens that way. But one out of a hundred. The other 99 percent you can do so much to help yourself. Fail to plan equals plan to fail.
 
Good doesn't have to mean "special." The situation made her uncomfortable, she did what she thought she needed to do to be (and feel) safe, and everybody walked away. That's a good outcome.

Was this situation out of the ordinary for many of us? Maybe not, but it made her and the OP uncomfortable. There's no need to over-analyze it or bicker over what the "correct" response is in a situation like this. Is she going to start carrying OC and get some self-defense training? I'd bet she is, and I hope Dakota will keep us updated.

I think this one has gone as far as is useful.
 
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