Suspect shot in London (merged)

S'funny, I was talking with my brother about this earlier today. He's a member of the UK armed forces, and seems to think there's nothing wrong with what happenned at all.

"Bit of a shame, that. Shouldn't have run from armed police, though"

My take? It's a crappy, crappy way to announce a shoot-to-kill policy.

Me? I carry a laptop, in a bulky backpack - I do 3D graphics for a living, it's a hella big backpack. I always wear a jacket to carry my walk-around junk. It's my Chandelier of Gear - phone, PDA, keys, wallet, shades... heck, even without a handheld game system of some kind, that's still wayyyy too much stuff to go in jeans pockets. Also, I have the cardiovascular fitness of a week-dead stoat, so I sweat a fair bit.

Quite often, I'll reach inside my jacket to change tracks on my MP3 player.

Anyone wanna take bets on my life expectancy?
 
[sarcasm]
I really wonder what the British police will do when winter arrives.
Tackle and shoot everyone who isn't willing to catch a cold?
[/sarcasm]
 
I guess since no one will stand out, they will not be targeted :rolleyes:
Has anyone heard more about the house they were watching? I'm still reserving judgement until i have all the facts. I have heard that some "officers" at the incident were carrying G36C's and G3's - suggesting they were not SO19 but SAS (which would explain the number of shots and placement).
 
Seems they are doing a pretty efficient job of finding all the participants in the last 2 bombings, and more or less chalking up the one fellow's death to acceptable collateral damage.
I wonder if the US press and media would be taking the shooting as calmly as they seem to be. I can think of a dozen or so of our media elites who would be on this like white on rice, and 500% on the side of the victim of what they would be calling a police riot.
After all, we still have people in the national media here who are not willing to label the 911 hijackers as terrorists, that term being "too pejorative" to use if you are being "impartial", but of course anything you feel like calling the cops, or the military, or Dubyah, that would be OK.
Ah, yes, selective impartiality is such a convenient thing............ :barf:
 
Looks like this one is definately not going to go away anytime soon. I can just hear the echo of the paper shredders and cloistered conferences to "get the stories straight" already. If there is a public inquiry, I wonder who will be the fallguy:

http://news.scotsman.com/index.cfm?id=1821832005

Mon 22 Aug 2005
Blair backs Blair but blame game goes on

JAMES KIRKUP
POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT

A FULL-SCALE public inquiry into the Metropolitan Police's shoot-to-kill policy came a step closer yesterday as the row over the death of Jean Charles de Menezes intensified.

The Liberal Democrats became the first major political party to back a formal inquiry into the Met's firearms policy since the London bombings, and the government indicated ministers are open to the prospect of a statutory inquiry. A public inquiry would be likely to have a much a wider scope than that being conducted by the Independent Police Complaints Commission (IPCC).

The political anxiety over the fatal shooting of Mr de Menezes last month at Stockwell Underground station is being stoked by the anger of the 27-year-old Brazilian's family. They yesterday revealed the police had offered them just £15,000 compensation for his death.

New doubts also surfaced over the operation that led to Mr de Menezes' death, as it was reported that the surveillance officers who first followed him before "handing over" to a firearms team had not considered the man to be a credible terrorist suspect.

Despite growing doubts about the conduct of Met officers and the force's honesty in publishing details about the shooting, Downing Street and John Prescott, the Deputy Prime Minister, yesterday insisted that Sir Ian Blair, the Met commissioner, has the complete confidence of the government.

Mr de Menezes, who was shot eight times on 22 July, had not run from armed officers and was not wearing a heavy winter coat, as early reports, encouraged by the Met, had suggested. Those claims had been used to explain why the innocent Brazilian could have been mistaken for one of the terrorist bombers who attempted an attack on the London transport system the previous day.

Sir Ian is under fire for failing to correct that misinformation, and yesterday he courted further controversy by admitting that he was not informed Mr de Menezes was unconnected to any terrorist suspects until 24 hours after the shooting.

Sir Menzies Campbell, the Liberal Democrats' deputy leader, said that while he had full confidence in Sir Ian, there were issues for the commissioner to explain.

"There are some questions that Sir Ian Blair will have to answer, not least the question which appears to have emerged today - that for 24 hours he wasn't aware that the young man who had been so tragically killed was in fact entirely innocent."

Sir Menzies said it was "inevitable" that a further inquiry would be needed on top of the IPCC investigation: "I believe that the role of the commissioner, in particular what he knew and when he knew it, are the issues upon which further investigation will be necessary."

Just hours after the shooting, Sir Ian described the incident as "directly linked" to the London bomb attacks and said that the dead man had been "challenged and refused to obey police instructions" before he was shot.

Sir Menzies said Sir Ian was "ill-judged" to have made unequivocal statements so soon after the shooting.

"It seems to me that it should have been the case that there was a calm and careful and rational investigation and that no public statements should have been made until that had been completed," he said.

The IPCC is currently investigating the Stockwell killing - an inquiry Sir Ian initially resisted - but it seems increasingly likely that there will be the broader inquiry, perhaps led by a judge, into the Met's "shoot-to-kill" response to potential suicide bombers, a policy Sir Menzies said should now be reviewed.

Mr Prescott - who is in charge of the government while Tony Blair, the Prime Minister, is on holiday - pointedly refused to rule out a broader investigation of the issues raised by Mr de Menezes' death once the IPCC has reported later this year.

"I wouldn't rule anything in or out," the Deputy Prime Minister said. "You must leave it to the independent body to make a full investigation. Let us listen to what they have to say and then we can make a proper judgment.

"There are matters of great concern here. I would not want you to think for a moment that I am entirely happy with the events that happened."

Mr Prescott also expressed concern over the way the Met had acted towards the grieving family.

Mr de Menezes' relatives have called for a public inquiry and for Sir Ian's resignation.

Meanwhile, it has emerged that a senior Met commander presented the dead man's parents with a formal letter offering a gratis £15,000 payment. The letter was presented in English to the family, who speak only Portuguese. They were also given no time to arrange for a lawyer to attend the meeting, relatives disclosed.

Mr Prescott conceded that the Met's treatment of the family could have been better.

"I haven't seen the letter and I think it would be terrible if it was done that way," he said. "It does sound not a very sensitive way to deal with such a difficult matter."

Sir Ian, who took over as head of the UK's biggest police force in February, has rejected calls for his resignation, and yesterday used another newspaper interview to defend his conduct and that of his officers.

But in the interview, he disclosed the key fact that may come to haunt him - revealing that it was not until the morning of 23 July that he was informed there was no evidence linking Mr de Menezes to terrorism. "Somebody came in at 10:30am and said the equivalent of, 'Houston we have a problem'," Sir Ian told the News of the World.

"He didn't use those words but he said, 'We have some difficulty here, there is a lack of connection'. I thought, 'That's dreadful, what are we going to do about that?'."

But the report that has perhaps the greatest potential to damage the Met was one that yesterday suggested the surveillance team that tailed Mr de Menezes from his flat in Tulse Hill in south London to Stockwell had not believed he was about to detonate a bomb.

Supporting that report is the fact that at least three surveillance officers boarded the same Tube train as the Brazilian, something they would be unlikely to do if they suspected him of carrying explosives.

The report raises questions about why armed officers - who arrived on the scene only minutes before the killing - apparently took a different view about the threat Mr de Menezes presented.

©2005 Scotsman.com
 
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