Survival Gun

[BarryLee]

I heard some folks discussing survival guns yesterday and the debate was less about caliber than the best model. Everyone seemed to feel the .22lr was the best choice in caliber and some type of break down rifle for the actual gun.

So, my question, why the .22lr? It seems a mid size 9mm handgun would provide more firepower for about the same amount of weight. Someone said the .22lr would be better for taking game, but would it really? I’m admitted no expert, so what am I missing?

Note: I’m assuming this would be for short term use in the American wilderness.

 

[kraigwy]

I know this is in the handgun section, but you did ask for "other".

In 1972 I moved to Alaska to work on the Rail Road. I was sent to Healy (north of McKinley park) to work as a brakeman. There was no place to live so I moved to Lignite (three miles north) squatted on RR land, built a 12X18 cabin where I lived with my wife and two toddlers.

I lived there two years, got laid off in the winters and had no income what so ever. I pretty much hunted and fished to feed my family. I had several hand guns and rifles, but the one I used to gather the food I needed was an old Savage 24D, 22/410.

I'm not into the SHTF scenarios but if something did happen (EMP or Solar Flairs) I have no doubt that this also would be the gun I would go to to put food on the table.

 

[DaleA]

My .02 worth.

Common folklore seems to be that the most plentiful game would be squirrels and rabbits. A .22 is good for that.

Ammo size and weight favors the .22 also. Check out 200 rounds of .22 verses size and weight of 200 rounds of anything else.

It's commonly mentioned the rifle could be used as a signaling device but IMhO a whistle beats out a gun by a large margin in this category.

 

[Doug S]

Advantage...lots of little useful bullets, that require little storage space, and weigh significantly less than other larger caliber.

 

[g.willikers]

Another vote for the .22 rimfire.
And a bow and arrow, if asked.
Stealth is important for keeping a low profile, which might be important in a survival situation.
There's lots more small game around than anything else.
Plenty of squirrels in our urban neighborhood, but no deer or bears.
Probably no way to keep large game meat fresh anyway, and the mess left over from dressing it that might attract something you don't want.

 

[Guv]

An old Stevens combination over and under. 20Ga over 222 or 223.

 

[roashooter]

Survival in the great american wilderness??? The cold hard facts...where there is wilderness....most will not survive. It always amuses me when the subject of "bugging out" is discussed. Just where do 350+million people bug out to? I see a massive parking lot on all roads.....going to lord only knows where. How long can rabbits/squirrels feed millions of people?
In reality...the people who will survive the emp/solar flair/epidemic/zombie apocalypse...are the few that are already living in the regions that so many think they are going to flee to. Living off the land is not a skill that city dwellers
will develop before they starve to death or are killed by other the starving masses.

 

[ThomasT]

You all can eat the squirrels and rabbits if you want. Me? I live in Texas and we have about half as many cows as we do people. I know what I'm gonna eat. Head shots with a 22 mag should do it.

 

[BarryLee]

I suspect some of the differences have to do with how you define “survival”. Obviously there are many interpretations, but I suppose mine is a few days lost until the search party finds me. I wasn’t really referring to SHTF stuff or formal survivalist.

 

[ThomasT]

I wasn’t really referring to SHTF stuff or formal survivalist.

You should have made that clear in your first post. I like everyone else thought you were talking long term survival. I see you mentioned short term but didn't know you meant for a couple of days.

If its just for a few days anything will work. What ever you had with you to start with should provide a couple of meals. And having a small stock of food in a backpack should solve all the problems. A small fishing kit wouldn't hurt either. For a "few days" I would be more concerned with a clean supply of water.

A good quality pellet pistol stuffed in a backpack will get you a few birds to eat.

 

[BigMikey76]

For short term lost in the woods for a few days type of survival, whatever you have with you will likely take care of your needs. Longer than that, and I will definitely have to go with the .22.

 

[Grant D]

I voted 22 rifle.
If it's just for a few days, I guess I could shoot my neighbors chickens, he won't miss a few.lol

Besides, my wife keeps at least a months supply of food in the house, and lots of bottled water.

 

[Skans]

I agree that a 9mm beats a .22 for a survival pistol. I might even go with 10mm.

Here's the thing. If a disaster hit my area and I had to travel 8 hours north (by car) which could end up being 1 month on foot or a a few weeks on bicycle/foot, I have to ask myself "which one gun am I going to take?". There are only a select few disasters for which I'm leaving my area - basically weather related. In that case I'm far more concerned about human threats than anything else. If it's some kind of global mass chaotic event, I'm going nowhere! Staying put is boring, but its really my best option.

First, it will be a handgun, not a rifle - it's just easier to carry.
Second, it obviously will have to be a gun I already own with spare mags.
Third, I need to be able to carry all of the ammo I will need. Because, whether it's 9mm or 10mm - it doesn't matter, there won't be any available anywhere for any price!

So, it's between my Tanfoglio Stock 10mm and My Glock 17. Either way, it would be carried in a backpack. I'm leaning toward my 10mm.

 

[kraigwy]

I didn't want to get into SHTF debates but I feel I must.

I do believe (as does our government, such a situation would occur because of an EMP or Solar Flair (which if large enough), would do the same thing.

If a disaster hit my area and I had to travel 8 hours north (by car)....

Isn't gonna happen. In an EMP attack anything electronic is gone. Unless your car is an early 70s or earlier, (pre-electronic ignition) it isn't gonna work.

In the first part of this century, congress asked that a study to be done regarding EMP. Scientist, physicists, and military experts came up with a paper on this subject showing this country is ill prepared for such an attack. They figured 80% of the people in this country would die within the first year.

You can read the report here: http://empcommission.org/

The reason the report isn't well known is it came out at the same time the 911 Commission Report did. Guess which one sucked up the news airwaves.

This threat was known a long time. In 1974 during the cold war I was sent to school by APD for RADIOLICAL DEFENSE. This course went into detail about the subject. I tried to enlighten people and gave up because everyone said I was nuts. Maybe, maybe not. I've been studying and learning to prepare since then. Read the Report and decide for yourself.

I wont go into my thoughts on the subject here. That's for TFL owners to address, this is a firearms forum and people do get nutty when talking about survival and in truth I'd have to agree with the moderators on the subject.

There are plenty of survival sights on the net. Do some research.

My earlier post on this topic was how I lived. It didn't do with survival just the way I lived before my wife decided it was time to move to town where I went to work for the Anchorage Police Dept.

 

[rickyrick]

Something else. .22 has it's merits. But survival means many things to me. A bit more power I'm thinking.

I'm an electrical person, I deal with the ill effects of transient voltages daily on a smaller scale. EMP would be a problem for the power grid and unprotected circuits connected to them. Cars... I'm not convinced that they'd suffer widespread failure so much. Cars are electrically isolated from the grid and many of the circuits are protected from transients. If you grounded your car when not in use, you'd essentially shield most of the circuits anyway

 

[Unlicensed Dremel]

You said Subsistence survival (very different from other types), so...

Maybe one of these... .22lr over 20ga and .22 mag over 20 ga. Not a bad choice anyway. FWIW, I consider the top one (.22lr) to be a hunter (squirrel; rabbit), and the bottom .22 mag one to be more of a subsistence survival gun. I guess that's because a .22 mag can more easily dispatch medium to medium-large game like beaver and small deer better than a .22lr, although a forster slug in the 20 ga would do even better. Until that day comes, which is likely never, it serves as a fall turkey gun, and potentially a yote gun.

But if you can find a model 24 in .357 mag over 20 ga, .223 rem over 20 ga, or .30-30 win over 20 ga, those are pretty spiffy, too - though quite pricey now, espec. the .30-30 and .357 mag ones. Even these two can fetch a lot more than they did just 10 years ago.

 

[wogpotter]

"Survival" is a very broad term, so the "best" will vary depending on the poster's experience & view of what exactly is being survived.

Personally I go with a folding stock .22 rf rifle. Specifically a Ruger 10-22 with a Choate Machine & Tool folding stock & a compact 4X scope.

Why?
Compact with the stock folded, I can strap it to the side of a day-pack.

10-round mag is reliable & easy to carry plus fast to change iof I needed to.

Easier for someone minimally experienced to hit with than a pistol.

Loud enough to signal with.

Quiet enough I can "get away" with no hearing protection outdoors.

Short enough range I won't be worried about bullet impacts a few miles away.

Ammo is small & cheap.

I don't think there's anything that I couldn't find, kill, prepare & eat easily that can't be killed humanely with a good .22RF placed well. Sure it's dodgy for putting down a Moose, but what the heck (in the real world) am I doing hunting something I just cant preserve long enough to consume it?

 

[FireForged]

If we are talking "survival" which may have a self defense element.. I would want something that does several things pretty well. I do not want to be limited by a narrow use firearms like a 22 or a shotgun. If I could make my own selection based on commonly owned firearms it would be a med caliber semi auto or lever rifle. Something like 5.56, 30-30, 243 or 7.62x39

 

[kilimanjaro]

For a short term lost in the woods scenario, I don't need food, just water and shelter from the elements. If I had a weapon, it would be used for signaling my location, meaning the .22LR and one or two boxes of ammo.

I avoid getting lost in the woods by carrying a compass and map, and leaving a copy of my map with someone at home with a red circle around the area I'm going to be, so when I don't come back by Monday morning something will be done about it.

 

[bbqbob51]

If I could only pack one firearm I would probably put my 6" bbl Smith And Wesson 686+ on my hip and pack 50 rounds of .357mag and 150 rounds of 38spl. I understand the 22lr argument and agree with most points. I just think the .357mag/39spl platform would work better for self protection from most creatures in North America and will easily bring down all kinds of game for sustenance. The handgun also allows my hands to be free to do other activities.
If I had my druthers I would also pack a 22lr rifle such as my Henry or possibly my S&W 15-22 or Remington 597. Please allow me to bring 2 firearms!