Supreme Court to weigh medical marijuana laws

[shaggy]

I hope so too, but if they accept the idea that the interstate commerce clause is there to ensure a nationwide free trade zone, not a nationwide federal regulatory zone, they will pull the rug from under most of the federal structure as it exists today.

Somehow, I don't see that happening. The decisions will be in line with the New Deal reasoning of Wickard v Filburn, unfortunately.

What I've been saying all along.

Much as I'd like to see the use of the CC curtailed as a basis for every possible federal law and regulation under the sun, its just not going to happen. There is simply far too much law premised on the the CC, too many governmental instutions, and too many people with an interest in the status quo. The government is not going to cut its own throat and put hundreds of thousands of federal government employees in the unemployment lines.

 

[Wallew]

Lawdog (and everybody else),

For a product that's ILLEGAL, seems kind of FUNNY to have a store front selling that illegal product, huh?

http://www.bluntbros.com/

Join Blunt Bros and your closest friends for the best party in North America! The Spring BC Harvest Cup 2005 will be an amazing event for friends old and new to enjoy the best that beautiful BC has to offer!

Then there are these guys...

http://www.kindseed.com/

20% MORE POT SEEDS FOR FREE WHEN YOU BUY AT OUR RETAIL STORES! Every order made at one of our retail locations will receive 20% more seeds free! With two retail locations in Vancouver, you can purchase marijuana seeds in person 7 days a week from a Authorized Kind Seed Consultant. 319 Cambie Street & 312 W Hastings Street in Vancouver.

Yah, you betcha, IT'S ILLEGAL (winky, winky). The BC government NEEDS the money these guys generate in taxes. It's a HUGE cash influx for the Vancouver politicians. And they NEED that money to spruce up BC for the 2010 Winter Olympics.

To say NOTHING of all the USA GRINGO'S running north of the border to relax and unwind at one of these places. And this is just in BC. My understanding is that there are lots of 'pot' houses springing up all over Canada, especially near the US border. Toronto (just north and east of Detroit) supposedly has a sizzling pot house scene right now, according to all sorts of news outlets.

It's ONLY A MATTER OF TIME before the politicians HERE figure out that they are letting TRILLIONS of dollars slip through their fingers and allowing their brothers to the north (Canada) a HUGE windfall yearly.

I know the WAR ON DRUGS is a huge success, but HOW LONG do you think US politicians will allow Canadian politicians access to MONEY that they could be spending?

 

[LawDog]

Okay, so marijuana isn't legal in Vancouver, it's just ignored for now. That clears up that confusion.

Now, you state:

The amount of money they recieved in taxes on MJ?

In EXCESS of three billion dollars.

Could you point me to a source for this?

My confusion stems from my wondering that since marijuana is still illegal, and the local government is merely ignoring it, how are they taxing it and how do they know that the tax money coming in is the result of marijuana sales?

Are the local merchants sending in one check marked: "Marijuana Sales" and another check marked: "Sale of Everything Else""?

LawDog

 

[Wallew]

Two sources. One was from the LA TIMES (I think), I was reading the financial section about the 2010 Olympics, when WAY down at the bottom they mentioned that the construction costs were covered by a SPECIAL TAX that had recently been instituted. The article also mentioned that construction costs for 2003 were expected to total just over $3 Billion CANADIAN. So, yeah you have to read between the lines, but...

This same story was basically repeated about eight weeks ago on a special Fox News Channel ran about 'Drugs North of the Border'... Again, near the end, was a small segement about Vancouver, BC. As most of the show had focused on Toronto's burgeoning pot cafe clubs. Once again, a city official stated that he had no idea how they would have covered 'city costs' with the upcoming 2010 Olympics and all the construction that the city was having to do. Again, you DO have to read between the lines, but...

I would imagine a Nexus/Lexus search would bring up the specific article.

As far as how the city/state/COUNTRY are handling their new accounting problems, IE HUGE TAX REVENUE INCREASES, I assume that all of the 'newly' taxed items just fall under 'general revenue' reported by whatever company is reporting it's overall sales for the year. I may be mistaken, but unless you are doing something specific that requires you to break out specific types of revenue, all you have to do is say, "I sold $X,XXX,XXX last year", at a profit of... and that's where I lose my in depth understanding of CANADIAN accounting procedures.

The BC Harvest Cup was selling 'FULL JUDGES PASSES' for $1000 each. That got you in the door, a few gee-gaws, a t-shirt and ... whatever. I wonder HOW MUCH of that $1000 went to the city/state/Country??? Those costs DID NOT include room, meals, transportation, etc... Do the math.

 

[cuate]

Medical MJ

I don't have the answer, all I know is I don't use MJ, that Mexicans and Indians used it for centuries until in 1937 the Feds decided that they were horrible dope "fiends" and outlawed it. Which was not true for the most part.

I do know that possession of certain amounts of MJ is a felony in Texas and once convicted of a felony, one cannot own or possess guns or ammo, or vote. I do know that there is a profit in it as our jails are full of people caught either selling it or just in posession. And I do believe that if it were completely legalized and taxed, the street dealers would go out of business, many young persons would not view it as so daringly risque and smoke it.

And I do know that Texas Insurance Companies, their lobbyists and Mad Mothers have almost made liquor and beer consumption in their minds as bad as pot smoking with severe penalties. And I do know that the freedoms that our Great-Great Grandfathers fought the Mexicans over and won, Our Great-Grandfathers fought the United States and lost, and our Fathers, then us, and now our sons and daughters are fighting for are being taken away
by lawyers, lobbyists, Marching Moms, and a host of ill advised people! I don't do pot but I am mad as hell!

 

[publius42]

Supreme Court to weigh medical marijuana laws....


Hmmm... My money's on 7 pounds, if printed up in a standard 12 pt sans serif font. Just a wild guess.

Of course, if the Supreme Court finds that growing a plant and giving it to a neighbor (and building your own machine gun) are not interstate commerce, those laws will weigh quite a bit less.

 

[Lawyer Daggit]

I can attest to the medical value of Marijuana. I have a severe migraine problem and a relative gave me some when I was visiting in another state to the one I practice in. It knocked the edge off the pain and had a longer duration than a narcotic- which wears off while the headache is still present.

I have in my practice seen people who have had psychosis induced by Marijuana so I am of too minds about this, although government regulation of anything does not work.

 

[kjm]

I am with Cuate.

I have used it in the distant past. I don't plan on using again unless I have a legitimate reason. However, to me this isn't about some taboo that society has some stake in keeping taboo. To me it is about the freedom to choose what you do with your life, and as long as your choices don't cause bodily injury to others, all the mad moms and busy-bodies in the world should not have a right to deprive people of making stupid decisions.

I have friends who smoke pot. I know specifically of a physician and her husband a stock anylist (recreational), and another pair of friends who run a successful small business who smoke it almost habitually. As a matter of fact, while in Highschool I might have been one of the few who did smoke it regularly, and now I seem almost one of the few who refuse to smoke it. All of these people are adults. They all are successful and in a few cases hyper-successful. They don't go about beating up people, robbing stores or homes, or other deeds marking one as a miscreant. They pay enormous gobbs of taxes (I assume that a self-employed physician, and two successful restaraunuers pay pretty big taxes and employ many others who likely pay taxes too), and they still choose to ignore a law. Society is not hurt by them.

Incredibly, many folks here would want to see these highly productive members of society jailed and become a drain on society because of how they recieve their recreation. Many of the people wanting to see them jailed use other drugs recreationally such as Viagra, Alcohol, Nicotene, and a whole host of drugs. Throwing stones is a great pastime of the pius!

I do not use Marijuana. I likely will never use it again. However, when I look into history, I see few cases where freedoms lost were ever regained without bloodshed. My Great Grandfather had a good deal more freedom than I am leaving to my children and I oppose any infringement on my freedoms not for myself but to quote a liberal mantra: "For the children!"

 

[IronGeek]

Medical Marijuana

Earlier this year, when he was still alive, my 83-year-old father told me he'd like to try Marijuana. He had never tried it before, but was dying of cancer and had no appetite.

I obtained some pot-cookies & a large pizza. We ate the cookies & he ate a good portion of the pizza. I was pleased.

No, I don't have cancer & I don't need medicine, but anyone who has a problem with me sharing a special moment with my father before he died can go to hades.

Ig

 

[OF]

The fact that doctors can't prescribe a plant for medical purposes due to some insane 'refer maddness' paranoia/stigma is unconscionable.

All the heroin-derivatives you want, but there'll be nooooo pot! Give me a break.

- Gabe

 

[Fred Hansen]

All the heroin-derivatives you want, but there'll be nooooo pot! Give me a break.

To some small degree derivatives are part of the issue. Some med-pot folks claim that the ability to smoke the plant itself is the issue. When medical marijuana derivative advocates point out that Marinol or some other generic drug developed for the purpose of being able to assure proper doseage should be used, the med-pot folks tend to squeal like squished cats. That's because (for the most part) the med-pot argument is a dodge. Phony as the day is long.

If the argument is about the legality of a plant then let's take that argument to its logical end. I don't think the med-pot folks are helping in that regard. I'm sure that lots of people see it for the phony argument that it is.

For the record I'll say that if a person wants to smoke dope it is their business. Having freedom also means the freedom to do the unspeakably stupid. I will say that marijuana has caused more than a little in the way of trouble in my own life, and in the life of one of my relatives. Trouble that I had always hoped he would avoid. Oh, and let me add that the legal repercussions of that relative's dope use are the absolute least of his problems.

 

[kjm]

If the Med MJ arguement is a dodge, then how about the constitutional arguement? We love to pick the parts of the constitution we like and deny others their rights that we don't think are important, but really, where in the Constitution does it grant authority to regulate what a person injests?

I have combed the constitution and found only one instance (prohibition) but that was repealed as an ineffective and destructive amendment after people began ignoring it widely and the law became viewed with considerably less respect as had the people who enforced it.

So- if it is dodge, then what about the Constitution?

 

[IronGeek]

Phony argument

That's because (for the most part) the med-pot argument is a dodge. Phony as the day is long.

I agree. Many people use the medical prescription as a means of recovering their freedom to enjoy a vice.

Would any of you prefer to deny legitimate treatment because some are disingenuous?

 

[publius42]

When medical marijuana derivative advocates point out that Marinol or some other generic drug developed for the purpose of being able to assure proper doseage should be used, the med-pot folks tend to squeal like squished cats.

I usually don't squeal. I just point out that handing a nauseated person a pill and saying swallow this and keep it down is not the best idea I've ever heard. Handing them a joint (or preferably one of the many safer methods of burning or heating cannabis) and saying that the proper dosage is when you no longer feel like puking, but feel like munching something instead, seems a better idea. Squeak.

In any case, the medical argument is over in Caifornia. The argument now is about interstate commerce (or the lack thereof).

 

[publius42]

And speaking of phony as the day is long...

the whole argument about dosage is exactly that. The purposes of ensuring proper dosage are:

To achieve the desired result.

To avoid side effects.

To avoid overdose.

There are thousands of years of human history with this plant. No one has ever died of overdose, unless you count the one politically connected death recently reported in the UK, which I don't. The side effects are well known, and include eating entire Jumbo bags of Doritos and then watching TV with a glazed look on your face. Only the nauseated person can tell you when the desired result has been achieved, but reported dosages seem to be considerably lower than reported recreational use amounts.

So, tell me again why it is so all-fired important that we get the exact right dose, even if it means trying to choke down a pill while you're busy puking?

 

[Fred Hansen]

If the Med MJ arguement is a dodge, then how about the constitutional arguement?

I thought I was pretty clear on that, but let me say it again... for clarity's sake:

For the record I'll say that if a person wants to smoke dope it is their business. Having freedom also means the freedom to do the unspeakably stupid.

Frankly I just find the whole topic tiresome. The idea that people would put so much of their time and effort into this silly little plant almost defies belief really.

I just point out that handing a nauseated person a pill and saying swallow this and keep it down is not the best idea I've ever heard.

As if a pill would be the only available method for taking the meds. [sigh]Thanks for proving my point.[/sigh]

Good lord.

 

[publius42]

As if a pill would be the only available method for taking the meds.

If you're talking about legal, FDA-approved methods which are currently available by prescription, then yes, a pill is the only available method. Would it be squealing too much for me to ask you to point out another one?

There are inhalers and others in the works, but I've not heard of any that are actually available.

 

[Fred Hansen]

If you are sophisticated enough to understand the FDA then I will assume that you understand that "would be the only available method" is substaintially different that "is the the only available method".

I'm sure that all of the necessary R&D and FDA testing would have already been completed by now if not for the quacks who would undermine all of that work by writing scripts for their patients with "bad backs" who need a note from the Doc to keep a bag-o-weed in their pocket. You know, so "The Man" doesn't keep them down.

 

[publius42]

So the medical pot movement is responsible for the lack of research and development in alternative THC delivery devices? OK, we'll just have to agree to disagree about that speculation about what might have happened, if only... Personally, I think that if only we weren't engaged in this destructive prohibition, that research might have been done.

But regardless of who is responsible, the objection to the only currently available alternative stands. You have to swallow a pill and then keep it down a while in order for it to work. Also, the per-dose price is much higher than even the inflated black market price of raw cannabis, which is immediately effective when smoked. Waiting 20 minutes for a pill, or 20 years for a researcher, is not much fun when you're puking. And we're doing all this just to be extradarnsure that we're getting the exact "right" dose, which is nonsense for the reasons mentioned above.

 

[kjm]

I don't understand why dosage is such a sticking point. When in pill form which is highly concentrated, or in an injectable form, maybe you could overdose and then go eat yourself forty bags of cheetos rather than two, but really, in the smoked version, you take a plant, you dry a plant, you roll a plant (unless you plan to use a bong), and you light a plant and smoke it until you feel better.

Having done a pretty intensive project on the subject and looking into the Nixon Administration and Carter Administration panels, both of which said that enforcement of the law is doing more damage to society than the substance itself, I find myself clinging to my last shred of rationality to defend decriminalization. Unfortunately many people who are completely rational otherwise are clinging to voodoo hysteria from the 1930's to justify a position that is unhealthy for the nation, unhealthy for the law, and unhealthy for those suffering from numerous afflictions that there has been shown a strong correlation between relief and the substance use.

If this plant had to be concentrated or manufactured such as the case of heroin, cocaine, or LSD, then I can conceed your point about dosage, but it doesn't. It is the raw form of the plant, no manufacturing required. People can grow it in their backyards and poof! They have relief.

I think I understand a little bit though. I am sure that 80% of the users would be recreational. I am not in doubt about that. So it is important that those suffering from cancer, glaucoma, Migrains and IBS suffer so that we keep the rest of society from putting an unauthorized smile on their face.

Yep- we sure do live in a free country.