Craig, I agree with those who have suggested you try a number of different guns and see which feel best to you. I also agree - and clearly you do as well - that training is vitally important. Finally, I agree that it would make sense in your situation to purchase both a good 12 gauge pump shotgun (I have a Mossberg 500 I like quite a bit) and a .357 Magnum revolver with a 4" barrel (S&W and Ruger have been mentioned, and they're both excellent. The nice thing about a .357 is that you also use .38 Special ammo in it - much cheaper and with far less recoil. My one original contribution here is that I'd also recommend (since your budget seems flexible) one of the newer compact or sub-compact semi-auto pistols. Trust me - carrying a 4" .357 revolver is a lot more work than carrying something like my 9 mm. Kahr PM9. With these three and some good training, you'll be about as prepared as you can be for almost any situation. Happy shopping!
Suggestions for Home Firearm
- Thread starter CraigW
- Start date
Posts, home defense firearms...
I did not read over all the posts yet but will add a few remarks.
Picking a home defense firearm or what a entry level shooter should use are common topics on message boards like TFL.
Taking formal classes from a NRA instructor is a good start. If you have limited training or a history with most handguns, A practical handgun to start with might be a new Ruger SP101 .357magnum DA only revolver or a used/good condition Ruger or S&W .38spl police revolver(DA only).
DA only(Double Action) means there is no single action notch or way the hammer can be "cocked". This avoids a light trigger pull & possible bogus claims of panic/reckless shooting.
DA only sidearms have been in use by many US law enforcement agencies for many years.
A Smith and Wesson M&P 8 shot .357magnum may be a good choice for home protection but it's large N frame may be difficult to carry/conceal too.
The big M&P magnum can hold a white light or green dot laser aiming unit.
If you really want a semi auto or compact pistol for home security & concealed use, I'd suggest these well made pistols; HK45 compact(LEM) .45acp, the HK P2000 LEM in .40 or .357sig, the Beretta PX4 Storm C 9x19mm(constant action), the SIG Sauer P226R or P229R in .40S&W or .357sig(DAK format with night sights).
I did not read over all the posts yet but will add a few remarks.
Picking a home defense firearm or what a entry level shooter should use are common topics on message boards like TFL.
Taking formal classes from a NRA instructor is a good start. If you have limited training or a history with most handguns, A practical handgun to start with might be a new Ruger SP101 .357magnum DA only revolver or a used/good condition Ruger or S&W .38spl police revolver(DA only).
DA only(Double Action) means there is no single action notch or way the hammer can be "cocked". This avoids a light trigger pull & possible bogus claims of panic/reckless shooting.
DA only sidearms have been in use by many US law enforcement agencies for many years.
A Smith and Wesson M&P 8 shot .357magnum may be a good choice for home protection but it's large N frame may be difficult to carry/conceal too.
The big M&P magnum can hold a white light or green dot laser aiming unit.
If you really want a semi auto or compact pistol for home security & concealed use, I'd suggest these well made pistols; HK45 compact(LEM) .45acp, the HK P2000 LEM in .40 or .357sig, the Beretta PX4 Storm C 9x19mm(constant action), the SIG Sauer P226R or P229R in .40S&W or .357sig(DAK format with night sights).
First of all, welcome to the forum. Lots of good information can be found here.
Secondly, congratulations on your purchase of the Sigma. I have two. A 9ve and a 40ve. The 40ve was my first handgun purchase four years ago and contrary to conventional wisdom the trigger was very nice out of the box. Yes, it was a long trigger pull but not stiff or gritty or difficult like many Sigma owners report. I liked the gun well enough to make the 9ve my fifth or sixth or seventh or eighth, can't really remember, handgun purchase.
Unlike the 40ve trigger the trigger on this second Sigma was bad beyond description. Bad to the point of having difficulty discharging the weapon. Fortunately it's easy to lighten the Sigma trigger with a little "at home" gun smithing.
Only you can decide but IMO living in a rural setting "says" more than one gun to me. First you'll want to pick up a semi auto handgun that you like better than the Sigma. Something that's more fun to shoot at your range. The usual suspects include XD's, Glocks, M&P's, Ruger SR9's or SR40's among plastic pistols. Any of them will be easier to shoot than the Sigma. CZ makes some outstanding all metal handguns and I'm also partial to Smith & Wesson's classic all steel 5906's and the like.
A shotgun would be next. Specifically a 12 gauge riot shotgun with a tube magazine roughly the same length as the barrel. Usually holds seven rounds. Handguns are nice for home defense but shotguns are so much more effective. I don't live in a rural area but if did there would be a loaded shotgun nearby.
Next I'd pick up a 357 six shot revolver of Ruger or Smith manufacture. A four inch barrel is perfect. I have a Smith 686 4" bbl and a Ruger GP100 with a six inch bbl. These two are the most beautiful guns I own.
After that I would just buy what caught my eye and at some point be sure to buy something that shoots 556, also known as .223. That would most likely be some iteration of an AR15 or one of Rugers Mini 14's.
And once you get really immersed into the shooting sports you'll want to start reloading your own ammo. There's nothing like the joy of burning through two or three hundred rounds of your own stuff. Stockpile a bunch of primers, powder, bullets and brass and you can shoot for two or three years.
Secondly, congratulations on your purchase of the Sigma. I have two. A 9ve and a 40ve. The 40ve was my first handgun purchase four years ago and contrary to conventional wisdom the trigger was very nice out of the box. Yes, it was a long trigger pull but not stiff or gritty or difficult like many Sigma owners report. I liked the gun well enough to make the 9ve my fifth or sixth or seventh or eighth, can't really remember, handgun purchase.
Unlike the 40ve trigger the trigger on this second Sigma was bad beyond description. Bad to the point of having difficulty discharging the weapon. Fortunately it's easy to lighten the Sigma trigger with a little "at home" gun smithing.
Only you can decide but IMO living in a rural setting "says" more than one gun to me. First you'll want to pick up a semi auto handgun that you like better than the Sigma. Something that's more fun to shoot at your range. The usual suspects include XD's, Glocks, M&P's, Ruger SR9's or SR40's among plastic pistols. Any of them will be easier to shoot than the Sigma. CZ makes some outstanding all metal handguns and I'm also partial to Smith & Wesson's classic all steel 5906's and the like.
A shotgun would be next. Specifically a 12 gauge riot shotgun with a tube magazine roughly the same length as the barrel. Usually holds seven rounds. Handguns are nice for home defense but shotguns are so much more effective. I don't live in a rural area but if did there would be a loaded shotgun nearby.
Next I'd pick up a 357 six shot revolver of Ruger or Smith manufacture. A four inch barrel is perfect. I have a Smith 686 4" bbl and a Ruger GP100 with a six inch bbl. These two are the most beautiful guns I own.
After that I would just buy what caught my eye and at some point be sure to buy something that shoots 556, also known as .223. That would most likely be some iteration of an AR15 or one of Rugers Mini 14's.
And once you get really immersed into the shooting sports you'll want to start reloading your own ammo. There's nothing like the joy of burning through two or three hundred rounds of your own stuff. Stockpile a bunch of primers, powder, bullets and brass and you can shoot for two or three years.
I would go with a 357 magnum. It has be a proven man stopper. IF you are a semiautomatic guy it can be found in the Desert Eagle and the Coonan as well as a few others out there.
The 357 from an automatic gains a fair amount of power over a revolver because if the lack of a cylinder gap.
Generally speaking 10mm beets 357 magnum but it is not true for the very best ammo. If you go with he extreme best ammo such as buffalo bore the 357s out preform 10MM in the area of energy (and that is from a revolver) if you put it in a semiautomatic you gain power.
The 357 from an automatic gains a fair amount of power over a revolver because if the lack of a cylinder gap.
Generally speaking 10mm beets 357 magnum but it is not true for the very best ammo. If you go with he extreme best ammo such as buffalo bore the 357s out preform 10MM in the area of energy (and that is from a revolver) if you put it in a semiautomatic you gain power.
CraigW
Sorry, I think I misunderstood when you mentioned the $2000-$3000 guns you saw that were attractive. What you have listed seems like you are on the right track, imo. I personally carry an XD .40 because it feels right and I am pretty accurate with it. I've shot all of the pistols you were discussing and that was my favorite. Just for thought, I have a buddy who is a federal agent and his issue is a HK2000 .40 (pretty sure that's the model) and he prefers his Glock 19 over the HK. I have shot both of those and I agree with him, just not an HK fan but that's with little experience with both. I hope you find something that you feel comfortable with.
Sorry, I think I misunderstood when you mentioned the $2000-$3000 guns you saw that were attractive. What you have listed seems like you are on the right track, imo. I personally carry an XD .40 because it feels right and I am pretty accurate with it. I've shot all of the pistols you were discussing and that was my favorite. Just for thought, I have a buddy who is a federal agent and his issue is a HK2000 .40 (pretty sure that's the model) and he prefers his Glock 19 over the HK. I have shot both of those and I agree with him, just not an HK fan but that's with little experience with both. I hope you find something that you feel comfortable with.
Roland Thunder
New member
Ditto for the SR9
Totally concur about the Ruger SR9. I had one and loved it. Very ergonomic grip, light weight for it's size, trigger pull, accurate to shoot. Great value,as well. You can get a new one for around $450.
If you want something more high end, consider a Sig Sauer 226 or 229. It's heavier and people like it because of the DA/SA trigger. The Navy Seals use it, if that tells you anything. Look to spend around $900 for one
Totally concur about the Ruger SR9. I had one and loved it. Very ergonomic grip, light weight for it's size, trigger pull, accurate to shoot. Great value,as well. You can get a new one for around $450.
If you want something more high end, consider a Sig Sauer 226 or 229. It's heavier and people like it because of the DA/SA trigger. The Navy Seals use it, if that tells you anything. Look to spend around $900 for one
Craig,
The HK45C is the compact model of the HK45. Both have adjustable rear straps on the pistols so you can change sizes to fit your hand. The 45C is also smaller so you can conceal carry it if you so desire. You can use 8 round magazines for concealed carry and 10 round magazines for home defense if you like.
The Border Patrol currently carry the HK P2000 pistol in .40S&W for their duty pistol, and the BP is involved in more shooting incidences per year than all other agencies combined.
As far as HK quality, the Naval Surface Warfare group just selected the HK45C as one of their duty weapons. It's also supplied to the Navy Seals if needed. Good luck on your selection, whatever it may be.
The HK45C is the compact model of the HK45. Both have adjustable rear straps on the pistols so you can change sizes to fit your hand. The 45C is also smaller so you can conceal carry it if you so desire. You can use 8 round magazines for concealed carry and 10 round magazines for home defense if you like.
The Border Patrol currently carry the HK P2000 pistol in .40S&W for their duty pistol, and the BP is involved in more shooting incidences per year than all other agencies combined.
As far as HK quality, the Naval Surface Warfare group just selected the HK45C as one of their duty weapons. It's also supplied to the Navy Seals if needed. Good luck on your selection, whatever it may be.
Willie Lowman
New member
As everyone has lined up to tell this gentleman that he should buy their favorite gun, the best advice has been...
Sunshine state, gun laws, Massad Ayoob...
If you travel often, I suggest buying a 2011 copy of www.Gunlawguide.com .
You can also check www.Handgunlaw.us or www.Mylicensesite.com . The Florida Div of Licensing oversees the W/concealed licenses & can assist you with legal or application details.
I'll close by saying you may want to take a few more tactics/skill building classes. Fellow New Englander Massad Ayoob(NH) has a class offered in the north central area of Florida; www.MassadAyoobgroup.com .
I'd look at Thunder Ranch(Clint Smith) or www.Gunvideo.com too.
Clyde
ps; I would NOT get a 12ga shotgun either for home defense. You need at least 1 free hand in a high stress critical incident & a combat shotgun takes most people 2 hands & effort to use safely.
A .44spl or .357magnum DA/DA only revolver could defend you.
If you travel often, I suggest buying a 2011 copy of www.Gunlawguide.com .
You can also check www.Handgunlaw.us or www.Mylicensesite.com . The Florida Div of Licensing oversees the W/concealed licenses & can assist you with legal or application details.
I'll close by saying you may want to take a few more tactics/skill building classes. Fellow New Englander Massad Ayoob(NH) has a class offered in the north central area of Florida; www.MassadAyoobgroup.com .
I'd look at Thunder Ranch(Clint Smith) or www.Gunvideo.com too.
Clyde
ps; I would NOT get a 12ga shotgun either for home defense. You need at least 1 free hand in a high stress critical incident & a combat shotgun takes most people 2 hands & effort to use safely.
A .44spl or .357magnum DA/DA only revolver could defend you.
Well for one thing you will have to show an ID. Usually that's a drivers' license, and you can only have one of those from one state at a time. So if you show a VT license in FL you will not be able to walk out with the gun as you likely did in VT.
But I believe even though you own property/homes in several states you can only claim primary residence in one. For a definite answer a call to the FBI would be worthwhile.
Heavy/auto
- Ed Brown Special Forces or SF Carry (commander bob 1911) .45 ($2k low street price)
- Sig (any) .40
- Dan Wesson Valor or Valor Bob (1911/reg and commander bob. "Poor man's Ed Brown" but still hardly cheap...just cheapER.
- Dan Wesson CBOB 10mm (disc) if you can find one
Light-to-medium auto
- HK-anything 9 or .40
- Smith M&P 9, 9c, .40 or 40c
- Ruger SR9c or (soon?) SR40c
- Dan Wesson Guardian (coated alloy commander bob 1911) 9mm or, my preference, newly in .45.
- Glock 10mm (as a JMO comment, the only reason to get a Glock in this exercise - and to suffer its poor(er) grip fit (strictly personal) is to get it in a caliber/capacity combo where it singularly excels
Revolver - bedside and carry (but not necessarily ccw)
- S&W DA .44 Special
- S&W 65LS (Lady Smith) Pre-lock and discontinued. 3" K-frame, uniquely with satin stainless and full shroud .357 Getting scarce and typcally priced accordingly.
- S&W 686 3" - as an L Frame, less carryable than the 65N but can more regularly shoot the popular/hot 125 grainers. The nice 3" compromise length makes it still a reasonably packable package.
Revolver CCW
- Colt Detective Special (disc) - with full shroud and shoot .38+Ps. 6 shot small frame
- Rossi 461/462 one of few small frame 6 shooters made now. .357 snub - and ditto to the Colt - shoot mostly warm .38s. Despite the Rossi detractors, a lot of good reports on this one.
- Ruger SP101 .357 and ditto, shoot mostly warm .38s.
- Ed Brown Special Forces or SF Carry (commander bob 1911) .45 ($2k low street price)
- Sig (any) .40
- Dan Wesson Valor or Valor Bob (1911/reg and commander bob. "Poor man's Ed Brown" but still hardly cheap...just cheapER.
- Dan Wesson CBOB 10mm (disc) if you can find one
Light-to-medium auto
- HK-anything 9 or .40
- Smith M&P 9, 9c, .40 or 40c
- Ruger SR9c or (soon?) SR40c
- Dan Wesson Guardian (coated alloy commander bob 1911) 9mm or, my preference, newly in .45.
- Glock 10mm (as a JMO comment, the only reason to get a Glock in this exercise - and to suffer its poor(er) grip fit (strictly personal) is to get it in a caliber/capacity combo where it singularly excels
Revolver - bedside and carry (but not necessarily ccw)
- S&W DA .44 Special
- S&W 65LS (Lady Smith) Pre-lock and discontinued. 3" K-frame, uniquely with satin stainless and full shroud .357 Getting scarce and typcally priced accordingly.
- S&W 686 3" - as an L Frame, less carryable than the 65N but can more regularly shoot the popular/hot 125 grainers. The nice 3" compromise length makes it still a reasonably packable package.
Revolver CCW
- Colt Detective Special (disc) - with full shroud and shoot .38+Ps. 6 shot small frame
- Rossi 461/462 one of few small frame 6 shooters made now. .357 snub - and ditto to the Colt - shoot mostly warm .38s. Despite the Rossi detractors, a lot of good reports on this one.
- Ruger SP101 .357 and ditto, shoot mostly warm .38s.
According to the federal law: http://law.justia.com/cfr/title27/27-2.0.1.2.3.html
27 C.F.R. PART 478—COMMERCE IN FIREARMS AND AMMUNITION
Title 27 - Alcohol, Tobacco Products and Firearms
Section 478.11 defines "State of Residence" and gives specific examples. It sounds like you own homes in two states and spend time in both. That fits Example 2 from that section.
So, if that truly fits you, then you should be able to purchase a firearm in either state, during the time you are residing there. Where you may run into issues is getting the local gun store to recognize that you are a resident if you don't have a driver's license for that particular state.
I would recommend that you go through the procedures to obtain firearms carry permits in both states, which should ease your purchasing efforts.
Sig Sauer P210
As an amateur photographer, I'll tell you it is the Hasselblad or Leica of auto pistols.
9mm, super accurate. Formerly the Swiss Army sidearm. The moved to the P226 because they're cheaper to make. But less accurate.
Beautiful lines, very accurate, (5-10 shot group @ 50m of less than 2") and easy to shoot well. This is what I would get if I could afford any pistol for both home defense and target shooting, and carrying around the property.
Link
This is a gun that a lot of us only dream about, and that is the only reason I can think of that no one recommended it yet. You sound like just the type of person they had in mind when they re-introduced it. A person who would rather have one top quality gun than several good quality guns.
The only drawback, aside from the price, ($2,200) that I can think of is that you might have a hard time finding a holster for it, and it is a full size pistol, so it is not ideal for concealed carry.
More:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SIG_P210
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=338419
That said, I realize that just because you can afford the best pistol doesn't mean you'll think it's worth it.
If I could afford a P210 but didn't want to spend that kind of money, I'd "settle" for an HK45 or a used HK USP Expert in 45 ACP:
Here's the HK45:
As an amateur photographer, I'll tell you it is the Hasselblad or Leica of auto pistols.
9mm, super accurate. Formerly the Swiss Army sidearm. The moved to the P226 because they're cheaper to make. But less accurate.
Beautiful lines, very accurate, (5-10 shot group @ 50m of less than 2") and easy to shoot well. This is what I would get if I could afford any pistol for both home defense and target shooting, and carrying around the property.
Link
This is a gun that a lot of us only dream about, and that is the only reason I can think of that no one recommended it yet. You sound like just the type of person they had in mind when they re-introduced it. A person who would rather have one top quality gun than several good quality guns.
The only drawback, aside from the price, ($2,200) that I can think of is that you might have a hard time finding a holster for it, and it is a full size pistol, so it is not ideal for concealed carry.
More:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SIG_P210
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=338419
That said, I realize that just because you can afford the best pistol doesn't mean you'll think it's worth it.
If I could afford a P210 but didn't want to spend that kind of money, I'd "settle" for an HK45 or a used HK USP Expert in 45 ACP:
Here's the HK45:
MashieNiblick
Moderator
To: Glockfan35
A shotgun left at home when you take your CCW out with you, extended trip or not, is a great idea as one's wife or children, properly trained, would probably be able to ward off a would be intruder and not have to shoot by racking the slide as well. . . .
If one's got diving, photography, Vermont country home, and quality video editing software money- one's got 870, Blackhawk stock, and small gun cabinet money as well. . . .
- MN
A shotgun left at home when you take your CCW out with you, extended trip or not, is a great idea as one's wife or children, properly trained, would probably be able to ward off a would be intruder and not have to shoot by racking the slide as well. . . .
If one's got diving, photography, Vermont country home, and quality video editing software money- one's got 870, Blackhawk stock, and small gun cabinet money as well. . . .
- MN
