Sueing the good guy after getting shot by mistake...

[jgcoastie]

If you know Tricare will collect from that shooter maybe you shouldn't use their care?

1) I do not presume to know what Tricare will or will not do. I assume they may try to recoup some funds from the guy, but unless he is significantly wealthy they will not waste their time. They don't stand a better chance of extracting money from an empty wallet than I do.

2) I do not have an option when it comes to choosing my health care provider; it comes with the Active Duty Military portion of my life.

Of course that is ridiculous as it is to say "well just suck it up" when you are negligently injured by another.

I don't believe I said anything of the sort....

 

[.22lr]

Silly question

What makes the shooter the "good guy"? If i have been injured by someone's negligence, then I will be compensated for that injury and any impacts to my life it may cause.

Its not my fault that I was struck by an errant bullet. That responsibility lies with the shooter. If I am the shooter, that responsibility lies with me.

Life isn't fair. Deadly force incidents are not clean. Every bullet you fire has a lawyer attached. Something to consider.

And, i really can't see viewing the guy who shot me at the "good guy". He's the jerk who wasn't sure of his target and what was beyond it... me.


Matt

 

[Double Naught Spy]

Getting shot in the process of saving me is one thing. Getting shot when I am not even involved in the situation is something completely different.

 

[ScottRiqui]

I do not presume to know what Tricare will or will not do. I assume they may try to recoup some funds from the guy, but unless he is significantly wealthy they will not waste their time. They don't stand a better chance of extracting money from an empty wallet than I do.

Hopefully you don't have any lasting debilitating injuries. Even if the shooter were Bill Gates, TRICARE isn't going to attempt to recover *anything* beyond your immediate treatment and enough aftercare to last until you're medically retired and collecting your pitiful monthly disability payments. After that, you're the VA's problem.

TRICARE doesn't give a rat's rump about your lost earnings or anything that happens after the hospital bill's paid - hope you don't, either.

 

[won-a-glock]

Lincoln was wrong

I took my CCW class yesterday, great class by a cop and a lawyer. I've never sued anyone and would likely require a pretty stiff case to actually consider it.

The gist from the class regarding your firing and hitting someone (we're in AZ), keep your mouth shut, assume you're going to get sued, keep your mouth shut, and also assume you will go to jail until it gets worked out, and keep your mouth shut. He then noted that on the civil side, it's pretty easy to avoid paying any money to a successful plaintiff, even if you loose the case. (Obviously assumes a lawyer).

Take Bernie Goetz as an example from 2 decades ago: $43M award against him, he declared bankruptcy, and is still living in NY. Even though a federal judge said bankruptcy couldn't discharge the award, he's paid nothing, and likely never will.

When asked several years ago about how much he had paid to one of the guys he shot he said "I don't think I've paid a penny on that", 20 years after the fact. Unless there's an offer of compensation, it may be a waste of your time and harbor future ill will.

<Philosophy_Soap_Box=ON>
From an earthly perspective, Lincoln was very wrong: All men are not created equal, and life is inherently unfair. Fact of life / School or Hard Knocks / Wisdom. Life is how you deal with what happens to you, not what happens. <Philosophy_Soap_Box=OFF>

 

[Tennessee Gentleman]

I do not presume to know what Tricare will or will not do.

I've just told you what they will do. They will try to collect and they have means at their disposal to do such much better that you or I. Of course collection can be difficult but the OP didn't specify whether the shooter was wealthy or not so speculation there is not helpful.

BTW I wouldn't be so all fired reliant on Tricare either. As someone who has been on it for over 30 years I will tell you there is a WHOLE lot they will not cover or only partially cover. If you don't sue to get the difference you could yourself be bankrupt.

I don't believe I said anything of the sort....

Didn't say you did say that

 

[usaign]

Let me put it this way. There is nothing you will be able to do to make yourself completely "whole" again after an incident. You can sue, you can jump up and down and turn blue. A lawsuit is an unknown factor where the outcome is uncertain and often untimely...very untimely where you are waiting a few years for the outcome.

It doesnt matter if your bills are paid by insurance or through a lawsuit or not paid at all. You will never be "whole" again. The best thing to do is not get into the situation in the first place, but if you do get into such a situation, then you have to man up. I can guarantee you if you are shot, the last thing you will be thinking about is the money. Maybe your family might be thinking $$$, but you will just be glad that you made it through and can still breathe.

If I lived to talk about being shot, then frankly I would not care if the hospital or doctors ever got paid or who paid the bills. I would be glad to be alive.

 

[Tennessee Gentleman]

It doesnt matter if your bills are paid by insurance or through a lawsuit or not paid at all. You will never be "whole" again...

Maybe but that is not the question that was asked.

If I lived to talk about being shot, then frankly I would not care if the hospital or doctors ever got paid or who paid the bills. I would be glad to be alive.

Couldn't disagree more. There are fates far worse than death and I have seen those. You'll care when you are bankrupt who pays those bills and yes you might get screwed anyway but if I could get money from the person whose negligence caused my injury I sure would and the fact that he/she was defending themselves would make no never mind to me.

 

[Alaska444]

What makes the shooter the "good guy"? If i have been injured by someone's negligence, then I will be compensated for that injury and any impacts to my life it may cause.

That speaks volumes right there. I sit in a crowded restaurant and think to myself, my gun is not going to help here, there is too much risk of hitting the wrong person with a stray bullet that I am responsible for if it leaves me gun. If I am at McDonalds and a creep starts executing people, well enough said, what choice do you have, you will be next. But an armed robbery with dozens of people potentially in the line of fire, just open your wallet deep and wide my friends if you hit an innocent bystander in such a situation.

Would they hold a police officer liable if they killed innocent people while apprehending someone for robbery? You betcha. It should be a sobering thought to consider who might be injured and remember that a .357 round can go through several walls before it stops. It really begins to narrow when and where you can consider using the weapon in self defense. You have a right to defend your life but not at the danger of someone else that is equally innocent. I have been a little taken back by some of the cavalier responses to this thread.

 

[Deaf Smith]

Let's say you are mamed for life by the good guy's shot and can never earn a living again. And you have a family to support.

Now we are talking survival. So you think about that before saying you won't sue.

As for me, yes the circumstances will matter, but I hope I'm only nicked.

Deaf

 

[jgcoastie]

Hopefully you don't have any lasting debilitating injuries.

I hope I don't get shot...
If I do have a lasting debilitating injuries, it'll be okay. I can become a gunsmith and make a living that way!!

Even if the shooter were Bill Gates, TRICARE isn't going to attempt to recover *anything* beyond your immediate treatment and enough aftercare to last until you're medically retired and collecting your pitiful monthly disability payments. After that, you're the VA's problem.

True enough. But at least I'll be alive...

 

[usaign]

Thanks guys for replying to this thread and voting in the poll. I just wanted to see who would file a lawsuit no matter what happened. Some folks even responded in the thread with logic and wisdom to justify their stance of sueing no matter the explanation.

I think what it comes down to is the new attitude in America that "someone has to pay". Obviously, the bad guy getting shot probably doesnt have any money or homeowner's insurance so they cant really be sued. Well, they can, but its like trying to knock through a solid brick wall with your fists. So they go for the good guy who probably has a home or other insurance because he is the only one that can pay and it if it were not for his actions then they wouldnt have been shot in the first place.

I guess all this twisted logic leads me to believe in one thing. Dont get yourself in the situation in the first place if at all possible. Avoid getting into a shooting match with someone because in the end someone will probably sue and/or the prosecutor might get you too.

At the end of the day, $$$$ and who is going to pay the bill is all what some people think in America. They are not glad to be alive or happy that the bad guy was aprehended. They just want money for themselves or their family and everything else is second nature.

 

[ScottRiqui]

You can call our logic "twisted", but frankly, I'm baffled at your idea that the shooter shouldn't be held responsible for the round he put downrange into my skinny ass. "Oops - my bad" may work on the basketball court, but I'm not going to take a huge financial hit and spend the rest of my life paying off my medical bills because good old "Cross-eyed Larry" couldn't keep his shots on target.

And you say we should be "glad to be alive". Pretty glib of you, considering that there's a very real chance that we might have escaped completely unscathed if not for the well-intentioned shooter's wayward shot.

 

[Sphawley]

Depending on the circumstances I guess it would depend...

But its hard to say what you would do till you were in that situation

 

[usaign]

All I am asking is if you would be willing to listen and consider the explanation and circumstance before filing a lawsuit or if you would just file anyway no matter what the circumstances are involved.

Ultimately, someone has insurance and your medical bills would be paid for. I think most of us here have medical insurance or can make claims under medicaid/medicare. The shooter probably will have homeowner's insurance to protect themselves. Most decent jobs have disability insurance. All businesses have some type of insurance. The hospital wants to get paid so they will assist the homeless man in filing out the state medicare/medicaid forms and they will be compensated. So someone is going to pay your bills...

I am just wondering if you would take it further then just medical bills and go out of your way to file a lawsuit for much more then just your bills. Im certain that most people filing a lawsuit are not just worried about their bills. Most lawsuits seek millions in cash rather then 10-20k for what they spent on you at the hospital.

 

[ScottRiqui]

I am just wondering if you would take it further then just medical bills and go out of your way to file a lawsuit for much more then just your bills. Im certain that most people filing a lawsuit are not just worried about their bills. Most lawsuits seek millions in cash rather then 10-20k for what they spent on you at the hospital.

First, you'd be damned lucky to get out of the hospital with only $20k in medical bills for anything other than a superficial flesh wound.

Second - you did a better job of posing your question in your last post than you have in the entire poll/thread. If it been clear from the start that you're talking about suing for an amount above and beyond my legitimate expenses, basically trying to take an opportunity for a lottery-like payday, then I would have voted differently.

 

[usaign]

I cant imagine a circumstance where an insurance company would not pay for all of your reasonable medical bills. The point you are trying to assert is a rare case where the medical bills would not be paid for. Employed individuals usually have some type of health insurance and disability. My employer has many different options they offer to include long term disability. Then we have the state which provides various funding through medicare/medicaid. We also have various business and homeowner's insurance plans.

Lets take illegal aliens for example. Even illegal aliens would not be refused admission to the hospital and the bills might hit their credit reports if they had a social security #. Their bills too would eventually hit the state under various funding programs.

So you argue that you would file a suit because your bills wont get paid, but they probably will get paid. So what are you debating about? Are you unemployed and do not have any health insurance? Is that why you would file a suit?

Well, lets say you are unemployed with no health insurance and there is no other insurance then we turn to the state violent crime compensation fund.

http://www.google.com/#q=violent+cr...y-sQPxtL2BDA&start=0&sa=N&fp=d7662d02f57091a4

Every state has one. So the point is moot. Your bills will be paid no matter the circumstance. So why file suit if all your bills will be eventually paid by some entity?

 

[ScottRiqui]

I don't think you have the first inkling as to how much a serious injury costs to treat. See my earlier example of my $140k hospital bill. That was for a 12-day stay and one operation, and except for some broken bones in my hand, all of the damage was limited to one leg. Internal injuries requiring a longer stay and/or multiple surgeries could easily make my bill look like chump change.

While it's true that the shooter might have insurance, look up what the liability limits are for many such policies. Not everyone is walking around with a multi-million dollar umbrella policy. And insurance companies are not exactly known for being "Johnny on the spot" when it comes to paying out claims, even for legitimate, documented medical expenses. In many cases, a lawsuit is going to be the only way to pry a payment from them. And while I do have insurance, they're going to go after the shooter and his insurance company first, and I'm going to have to be a party to that lawsuit, testify, etcetera.

As for the state victim's defense funds, look into how much they actually cover, *if* your claim is approved. To use Texas as an example, the cap is $50k, and they'll only pay out after every other resource has been exhausted (shooter's insurance, Medicare/Medicaid, Worker's Comp if applicable, etcetera.) You might qualify for an additional $75k to cover long-term expenses, but only in the case of permanent, total disability.

In short, you can say "the bills are going to get paid" all day long, but the reality is that it's not likely to happen without a lawsuit to help it along.

 

[scottaschultz]

Well let's turn this around...

Suppose YOU were the one who shot an innocent bystander in the course of stopping a crime? Now the guy is laying there in a pool of his own blood hanging on by a thread. So what are you going do?

"I'm really sorry I shot you. You got insurance, right?"

Even if the guy has insurance, are you just going to walk away and let him shoulder the burden? If you have any sort of conscience, you are going to offer to pay his bills.

If I get shot by an otherwise well-meaning person and they do not at least offer to pay my medical bills, you bet your ass I'm going to sue him!

 

[ScottRiqui]

Well let's turn this around...

Suppose YOU were the one who shot an innocent bystander in the course of stopping a crime? Now the guy is laying there in a pool of his own blood hanging on to a thread. So what are you going do? Even if the guy has insurance, are you just going to walk away and let him shoulder the burden?

If I get shot by an otherwise well-meaning person and they do not at least offer to pay my medical bills, you bet your ass I'm going to sue him!

Likewise, if it's okay for all of the expenses above and beyond the shooter's insurance liability limits to be foisted off on the victim's insurance company, his employer, Medicare, Medicaid, state's victim's funds, etcetera, then what's the incentive for the shooter to carry realistic liability coverage? He could just say "Oops - you hit my $100k liability limit after your first week in the hospital and your first surgery? Sorry about that - good luck!"

The victim's insurance company isn't going to like that plan. The more realistic scenario is that after the shooter's liability cap is met, the victim's insurance company will go after the shooter's house and savings. It's sad, but that's personal responsibility.

And the whole "glad to be alive" thing still sticks in my craw. In fact, it's almost the textbook definition of chutzpah. Without painting a specific scenario, it's possible that the victim is still alive not because of the shooter's actions, but in spite of the shooter's actions. It's like telling the victim of a drunk driver "relax - you should just be glad to be alive!"