Sub Guns For Hostage Rescue?

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Let's see if they take money for a TV movie as was suggested to be in the works.

What if they do?

1. Their house is trashed by Gestapo JBTs. Thousands to repair, these folks aren't rich.

2. They are one small family demonized by the biggest whore dirty money operation in the history of the USA. Greg Craig and the Clinton Administration.

3. They opened their home to a traumatized little boy and did their best to love and protect him and prevent his repatriation to a communist reeducation camp on an island of slaves.

We've had one prostituted pediatrican chiming in claiming 'abuse'. I suppose as a 'professional' you think he's cured by Play-Doh as well?

Shame on you Glenn.
 
JimR,

As I understand it, the Attorney General of the United States can issue a "demand order" to enforce an agency ruling, in this case the demand that the boy be handed over to the agency so that he could be reunited with his father in the United States.

The officers at the scene, as I understand it, had a search warrant giving them legal right to be on the property and to take the boy from the family.

So, to answer your question, the order to remove the boy was legal, and the order was legally enforced by agents of the appropriate agency, INS.

The use of 130 heavily armed INS agents was a necessity due to the defiant and militaristic stance taken by both the family and by the residents of the area.

Final point... The precepts of the Nuremburg trials, in which "I was only following orders" was a common line of defense, have absolutly NO bearing on this issue.

The Nuremburg defendants were tried under military law standards, and were applied as an absolute edict of the victorious side.

The expectation was that, somehow, by protesting these orders these men would have made a difference in the political and military course of the Nazi war machine is laughable.

The only difference their protest would have made would have been that they would not have survived long enough to see the Nuremburg tribunals.
 
No shame to me because I'm rational.
You see always to gravitate to rave or
in self-defense scenarios to pull that gun.
You are always want to shoot or brandish that gun.

Jeff, deadly force takes thought, I suggest you rethink your responses and try to use a cognitive approach.

As far as my profession - if you don't like it - tough - I do things that help and teach people. Damned fine profession. We also try to show people that thought is better than affect when making a decision.

Answer me this - given the court had decided the child had to stay in the country until the courts decided his fate - why did the family refuse to give the child back to his father?

I've seen their raving horse**** about forged photos. It might appeal to the conspiracy types but it indicates that they were out of control. That video was a horror also.

So Jeff - I speak from wisdom and you just rave. A long time ago, I learned to judge the source when someone criticizes me. You don't make the cut.
 
I was just over on HCI's website and noticed that their official position on the raid is, "None of this would have happen if H&K were not allowed to manufacture submachine guns. The gun was at fault."

j/k.

~USP
 
I see what you're saying Mike. By that logic, I might as well go to Cuba and sign up as one of Castro's men. What difference will it make? If I don't do it, then somebody else will.

Your assumption works only if there are enough evil men to take the place of those who refuse to do it. Get in line Mike! There are plenty of jobs for people like you in this administration.

You are on your OWN side Mike. Remember that when you need others to help you. They'll be somewhere else... following orders.
 
So, Mikul, regale us with tales of your exploits against the greater evil.

Perhaps you refused to use Johnson & Johnson cotton swabs because they hurt ducks in wetlands?

Maybe you refused to work on a certain project at your place of employment because it is problematic for you?

Perhaps you've marched for some grand cause?

Let us hear of your moral exploits, and tell us why your morality is so much more proper than someone else's morality, say, mine, or the officer who seized Elian.

You say that you're concerned that I may not be able to hail a cop some day because they might all be out snatching a kid?

I truly hope the cop you may need someday isn't one to whom you've written to "let him know how you really feel about him."

Sleep tight, and remember who really caused this entire situation to be played out as it was... Lazaro Gonzales and the rest of the Cuban community.
 
So many experts here I don't know if I should say anything. It is easy to say "I would quit my job if they told me to do that". The only problem is that in most jobs that order is more along the lines of "scrub the sinks" not "execute this court order".
 
To Glenn, BMiricle, Mike and others who see no evil in this blatant, illegal, military style attack, on US Citizens,

If I do something to upset the powers that be, will you lead the charge into my home? Miami required 20 thugs with sub-guns due to a report of the "possibility" of guns. The government has illegally registered my guns through Brady, so they KNOW I have weapons. Would 20 thugs be enough? How about 30 or 40? Then again, I'm a "gun nut" with an "arsenal", that just might, in an act of desperate insanity, attempt to defend my home. Can't risk an agent getting hurt, just in case I don't fall on my face, begging for mercy. So how about this - call in an air strike with one of those smart bombs. See, problem solved, you obeyed your orders, and no precious agents where hurt. So a family of worthless "gun nut" Citizens where fried, we're just thankful that no agents where put in harms way.

What's that you say? It could never happen here? It wasn't too long ago that people believed that Waco, Ruby Ridge, and Miami couldn't happen here either.
 
My main problem with the MP5 doesn't relate directly to the Elian incident. It's that the government can get an abundance of MP5s--in fact, all it wants and probably more than it needs--but obviously does not want the citizenry to own the same weapon. I don't quite see that the government is more trustworthy than the law-abiding public with the MP5 or any Class 3 firearm. I'd like to see the Class 3 registry re-opened in order to close just a little of the ever-increasing gap between the power of the people and the power of the government. Do I think this will happen? Almost no chance at all.
 
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Lawdog said:
Would a couple of plainclothed agents walking up to the house to remove Elian in the
bright noon sunshine, in front of the crowd at it's largest, have been enough to change the crowd into an aggressive mob? Especially if the Miami family added some histrionics?

Good thing we didn't have to find out.[/quote]

No doubt. Look at how worked-up our own members are, days after the fact and hundreds or even thousands of miles away?

For the record, as one who has had some passing experience (~500 rds) with various MP5s, I can tell you that they are:<UL TYPE=SQUARE> [1]Amazingly accurate. First-round hits at 200 yards from a field position on a man-silohuette are no stunt.
[2]Dependable. They digest anything, and always go "bang."
[3]Very pointable. They just seem to instinctively point where you want them to.
[4]Very controllable. They attenuate recoil of 9mm (the only caliber I've shot them in) extremely well. 3-shot bursts at 10 yards remain within a couple of inches.</UL>

These are things I want in an assault manuever. The real question is do I want the assault manuever?

Um, folks, if you really want to, y'all can open up Part II, but I'm shuttin' this one down due to length.

Regards,

L.P.
 
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