Stupidity at The Range

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sgtar15

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Let me tell you what happened Saturday at the local outdoor range. I was at the pistol range shooting my Rugar P90. The range was quite full and each station has a coffee can to dump empties into. The guy next to me,on my right, was shooting a Taurus 38special stubby revolver. After every time he was done he would open cyclinder and dump the cases in the can between us. While doing this the gun was tilted and was pointed right at my head! I understand that the gun was "open and empty" but still considered this to be an unsafe practice. After two times of him doing this, I asked him if he could move the can closer to himself so he wouldn't be pointing the gun directly at me, since it made me nervous. He was polite and understood.
Several times I see things like this occur, along with people approaching/working on their rifles when others are downrange checking targets. I believe these are unsafe situations and tell the people that they should not be handling firearms in these situations. Sometimes I get some real nasty looks. What do you all think?? Would you do the same??

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ALL CRIMES ARE HATE CRIMES.

SGTAR15
 
I absolutely agree with you. When you are dealing with guns there is no such thing as to safe.

A few weeks ago A guy at a local indoor range swept me once with his brand new S&W 629. I was diagonally behind him about 6 feet behind my wife who was on the line shooting. I absolutely went balistic on him. It took one of the range guys to stop me from yelling at him. Once they calmed me down they promptly escorted him out of the building and told him he was only welcome agian when he was willing to follow the rules.

Following safety rules means never having to say your sorry.
 
Hey, it happens to the best of us...

I was at the range yesterday with some friends, and I had just finished shooting my P7M13. A friend was talking to me, so I set the gun down on my shooting box to talk to him, action open, mag dropped.

The range guy, who was doing his normal pass through, immediately waltzed in an turned the muzzle downrange. When I laid it down, I wasn't paying attention, and had gotten it pointed at the next shooting stall, where another friend was shooting.



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Beware the man with the S&W .357 Mag.
Chances are he knows how to use it.
 
I remember getting some flack because I inadvertantly pointed an open, safety-on gun at someone. The only reason it was pointed at this person is because I didn't know they had moved next to me.

I was kinda pissed at getting scolded because there was NO chance of the gun going off and because I didn't point it at them, they moved into the path of the gun, but after later considertation realized that there was NO REASON to not be safer. Really, what difference did it make to me?

So, gun always pointed down range or at the floor (unless I'm on the 2nd floor).
 
Mikul, at my range, the rules are downrange or straight up.

This brings up an interesting point. Which is better, a certain ricohet, or a stray bullet in the air?


Hueco
 
My two cents:

Reputable ranges have the safety procedures posted and they make sure shooters read them before going to the firing line. There should be no question about the basics, but there are always nuances. If anyone makes a suggestion to anyone at the range regarding safety, it should get serious consideration and immediate action if it even resembles reasonable. The best of us have the occasional brain fart, and policing ourselves is a good way to make sure the ranges stay open. One incident will bring the anti-wolfpack out in force.

Newbies make mistakes, but at least they'll listen when someone talks about it. I've met a few "super-gunnies" who think they know it all, and if you speak to them they just rant about how they were handling guns when you were in diapers and so on.

Anyone who gets bent out of shape about someone pointing out correct safety procedure needs to go home and chill. Range owners quite rightly enforce this since it's their business on the line if somebody gets hurt. They have a hard enough row to hoe already, let's not make their lives any tougher.
 
I think one of the most stupid things I see at the range is people who bring their little children with them and during cease fires to go change targets leave them behind the firing line alone and tell them to stay put and wait while they go change targets. Small children are exceptionally curious and a line of firearms and floor full of shiny brass is just too tempting for them not to check out. Inevitably one of them will go up to a bench. Scares the heck out of me because if a parent is that irresponsible with their children how safe are they with respect to making sure their gun is unloaded and chamber open. One thing I saw just a couple weeks ago was a father with his 2 sons (which I thought was good), but he had to load the rifle for the youngest, who was probably around ten to twelve. But when they called a cease fire the father neglected to make sure the gun was made safe before he sat back behind the line. The kid had set the rifle down, loaded, with the mag still in it and the bolt closed, as people started walking down range. One of the range masters noticed it about the same time and came over and showed the kid how to properly clear the rifle and make it safe. He then gave the father a stern lecture on his parental responsibilities.
 
Well... I understand how someone could get angry at being covered. But I simply do NOT agree with loosing your cool in responding. Yes. Point out the danger of the situation. Let them know in no uncertain terms how serious this is. But anger does nothing to making this person a more responsible shooter.

I don't know... I guess I look at myself as an ambassador to the shooting sports. I have seen so many potential new shooting enthusists run away from the sport by intimidation. As an IDPA Safety Officer, I KNOW my number one priority is to make sure the COF and participants are safe. I take this job very seriously. However, I have found that if I :
1. stop the shooter calmly
2. making him/her safe first
3. THEN explain what the shooter was doing and how unsafe it could be

Almost without exception the shooter responds with concern that they had done something unsafe (didn't realize they had done it in the first place) and THANKS me for pointing it out to them. I want to encourage more and more people into our sport. The more sane people we have who understand the joys of shooting the better.

I am NOT minimizing the severity of the transgresson. Safety is EVERYONE'S responsibility. But we don't do anyone any favors by blowing up in anger.

Bubba
 
As a long-time revolver freak, if somebody has the cylinder obviously swung wide open or in the case of an SA, totally removed AND it's visible that way at all times, I would consider a "barrel pointing the wrong way problem" minor at worst. If it's an SA with no cylinder and this is obvious, one can argue it's not even a complete gun.

I shoot a pair of SA minirevolvers a little bit at every range session. Normal loading drill is to pull the cylinder - to me, carrying them "safed" is with no cylinder, frame dangling on a finger through the topstrap. Once in that mode, I don't have to worry about where the barrel points although they generally droop straight down.

Same thing with my snubbie: cylinder open, carrying it with my finger through the topstrap, well that's about as safe as it gets.

Jim
 
I was scolded by one of those self-appointed Range Policemen, because one or two of my 1911's ejected cases had bounced close to another shooter. (The only available bench that morning was down on the left of the firing line, and even a large screen on my left didn't catch every case). Nothing to do with him..he on my left...just felt that he had to give me a hard time...a few minutes later, there he was, while the range was hot, standing IN FRONT OF HIS RIFLE, in front of the firing line, cleaning the bore with a cleaning rod! I stopped shooting until he was back behind his bench.
I went to the Range Warden and shared my concern about this with him. (He had missed the first time the guy did it). When the fellow did it again, the RW called an immediate cease-fire and made sure everyone knew why...calmly and quietly, of course! The guy has kept his mouth shut ever since...
Mike/BC

[This message has been edited by Mike Davies (edited June 19, 2000).]
 
Hey Mike!

My .41 says HI! :)

I've never seen anyone complain about cases from a semi-auto. I don't know if it's just never come up, or if people realize that it's just one of those things.

I got whanged in the head with some brass ejected from some sort of Combloc rifle some years ago, SKS or AK or one of the CZ... can't remember. Outdoor range, no barriers between points.

Guy apologized profusely, but hey, it wasn't his fault, they don't eject in a standard pattern. He offered to move, but since I set up AFTER he got there, I moved.

Hurt like an SOB, though. :)

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Beware the man with the S&W .357 Mag.
Chances are he knows how to use it.
 
When I go to a public range I expect the following:

I will get hit by hot flying brass.

I will see someone behaving in a less than safe way.

I will get reprimanded for setting my hearing protection down on the bench immediately after the red lights go on...or something like that.

The guy next to me will shoot at my target by mistake.

If on the pistol range, someone will be hitting the dirt with his shots between the line and the targets 15 yards away.

The rangemaster who has seen me come and go for 20 years will not recognize me.

I am never disappointed or surprised. If someone is really bad, I leave.
 
Hey Bubba, I rarely have spoken to a fellow shooter in anger, and did not in this case. I speak to train and educate. I have found that most of these people are young men that were allowed to purchase a weapon but not nessesarily properly trained on the safety issues. Most of the time I have found they actually appreciate be taught about safety.

Sgtar15

"Keep teaching"
 
Here is my Favourite "Range Incident";

me and a Buddy where at therange shooting and this old Man shows up..... sets up a tripod, spotting Scope and then picks up an Ahshutz .22 Caliber single Shoot Target Rifle.

well we are watching him and here is what he does everyshot, lines up the sites, shoots and then brings the weapon sideways in frint of him to reload/Unchamber the spent shell. after about the 3rd time I asked him not to point his rifle at us, at which point he said "you young people don't know shyt about guns" and continued doing what he was doing previously.

Man that really chocked me, I am a big believer in Muscle Memory and doing everything the same every time, so if this guy decides not to shoot for some reason where do you think he is going to point the loaded gun :( at his age he should have had the courtesy/common sense not to be pointing ANY GUN AT ANYBODY

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PROUD TO BE CANADIAN
 
MountainGun44 has it right on the money. I've been going to "public ranges" since before I can rememeber. It was almost as bad then as now. Well, maybe not quite as bad as people 40 years ago tended to be a little more polite and civil, and a great many more had grown up with guns. Sometimes I think that it also shows the poor quality of the ROs or at least the lackadaisical job they do in enforcing the 4 basic rules of gun handling. Of course, it is sometimes the ROs who get shot. Not a job for the faint of heart, nor those lacking the patience and even-tempered restaint to deal with ARMED idiots. Stay safe.
 
I'd like to brag on my range a little. Shelby County Sport Shooting Range is owned and operated by the Shelby County Parks Dept. Rangemaster and asst are Park Rangers and also retired LEO. They know their stuff. Complete copy of the saftey rules are posted in every booth. This is a controled range. When the line is hot, chains are hung across entry points to the target side of the benches. Behind the firing line is a yellow line about 12" wide from one end of the range to the other. The command "Cease fire" is is followed by the command "When your weapons are empty and locked open, stand behind the yellow line." The saftey men make a sweep down the line checking to see that all weapons are locked open, empty, pointed down range and magazines removed. Sounds like a lot, but it only takes a minute. Once all the saftey men have given the Rangemaster a thumbs up, he'll command "The line is clear, you may go down range." Once the range is cleared nobody, but nobody is allowed to cross that yellow line or aproach the shooting bench. If you do have a brain fart and cross the line, not only will the range officers quickly hollar on you for it, but many of the regular shooters will too.
You have to remember that this is a public range. God knows I've witnessed some real stupidity from time to time, but in the twenty some odd years I've been going there they have only had one accidental shooting. Some moron got out of his car with a loaded .22 rifle, had a ND in the parking lot and the bullet struck a woman on the firing line in the leg. Some things you just can't control.
A safe day at the range is a good day at the range. These folks make every day a good day.

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There's no such thing as too much love, too much money or too much ammo.
 
Dang, all this sounds like firearms are prisoners, doubt i would shoot at all if i had to be treated like a child. However i believe in absolute saftey but i am a country boy that has grown up with guns and am very aware of my gun and surroundings and am usually very open to suggestions on saftey.

the only time i went ballistic is after teaching my nephew (12) safe gun handling skills. we had left the range/my back yard. and he had went to his other grandmother's house was playing and picked up a toy gun and pointed it at me, and knowing how to disarm gun handlers, quickly took the gun away, and chewed his ass out good. needless to say he doens't point toys at me any more.

what is even more disconcerning is that my moron brother-in-law his other uncle takes him, and his two sons out and lets them shoot a 410 without proper instruction on handling the gun and NO EAR PROTECTION.

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454Casull when it absolutely Has to be destroyed.
 
Grayfox:
Most ranges that I've been to use the same safety procedures as your range...but, like everything in life, it's not perfect..idiots abound, and there's ALWAYS one every time that I go to the range...like there's ALWAYS one noisy passenger on the plane, etc...just can't avoid it.
Mike/BC
 
Hey Mike!<g>
Your .41 sounds like its a real keeper..Congrats on a good buy! The .41 cartridge sounds verrrry interesting..I just hate splurging another $250 Canadian on yet another classic revolver, though...<gg>.
At my first IPSC match, I put a hot .45ACP case down the RO's neck as he ran after me with the timer...didn't score too many Brownie Points on that run..<GG>
Some range 'accidents' are not really serious, and sometimes unavoidable. I had no idea, for example, that my Security Six was spitting lead sideways left until a guy on my left started complaining about it...nothing too serious, but I stopped shooting the gun immediately and got it repaired. Flying brass? That's all part of the deal at the range, as far as I'm concerned...just like the noise..<gg>.
Mike/BC

Originally posted by Mike Irwin:
Hey Mike!

My .41 says HI! :)




[This message has been edited by Mike Davies (edited June 20, 2000).]
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