Stupid kids

R

rugerdude

New member
A friend of mine recently had his car flipped over......yes, he had his car flipped over in the middle of the night. This got me thinking (because my family has had to replace a windshield and a back window because of stupid kids) What amount of force (if any) could you meet someone with if you caught them in the act of vandalizing your car.

I know that deadly force is out, and I wouldn't want to shoot anybody over a broken windshield (well, I did when I realized that someone had beat it in with a bat) Basically, my question is:

Can you respond to an act like this with the threat of deadly force?

As it is now, If I were to catch someone doing this, I would grab my mossy 500 and get them to stop, I guess and call the police. I don't even have any ammunition for the thing.

Thanks,
rugerdude
 
Depends on where you are at, and if you are in the car at the same time. Some states your vehicle is an extension of your home, and if you happen to be in it...well then. But in the situation you describe about all you can do is get a description, and call the police. If you stand on your porch, and rack the slide loud enough for it to be heard ( nothing gets attention like the sound of a rack of a 12 gauge) You would be well within your rights. If you leave the porch you would probably be looking at brandishing a firearm charge.

I am not a lawyer, and I don't play one on TV so this is not legal advice, only a suggestion from real life experience.
 
Here's my take on it, remember I am not a lawyer.

If you grab that shotgun and rack the slide, you have responded with deadly force whether you have ammo or not. The gun itself constitutes deadly force, not it's loaded condition.

Here in Louisiana, the car is considered an extension of one's home. That means nothing in your scenerio. You cannot protect the structure of your home with deadly force. Someone can be lighting fire on your thatch roof and you cannot shoot them. You can protect your life within your home, or the lives of other people within your home. Any invader is considered hostile. The extension to the vehicle basically covers the carrying of a gun. You can carry a gun in any manner you please, loaded, unloaded, in the glove box, under a newspaper, or on the dashboard. To carry it concealed on your person in a car you need a CCW permit.

Now, what can you do? If you have a video camera, tape the incident. Get good footage. Get license numbers of any cars in the area. Get witnesses. Call the police. Let them do their job. Do not interfere. Take the vandals to court. Collect your damages, as well as your punitive damages, and buy a better car.

I'd like to just be able to resort to lethal force too. Stack'em up like cordwood and charge for storage. The law frowns on that though.
 
Someone can be lighting fire on your thatch roof and you cannot shoot them.
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If I or my family is inside at the time it is deadly force.
But typically no the use of deadly force to protect property went out when we stopped hanging horse thiefs, and cattle rustlers.
 
If these kids could be legally shot, they should be. I think knowing that they are risking their lives just to get a few cheap thrills would be enough of a deterrent.

As for me, If I hear someone bashing in my windshield, I will be responding with shotgun in hand. The fact that they have a baseball bat and are threatening my life should hopefully be enough.
 
Need to check the state law... In Texas the threat of deadly force is considered deadly force.

The best revenge would be to catch the idiots on camera doing it...In some states the parents could be held finicially libale for Jr.'s actions. get em on fil call 911 and have them arrested. Take em to small claims court if the loss meets the min/max amounts. The parents are not going to like getting hit in the pocketbook :D

I had a friend who lost some luggage due to airline negligence..they wouldnt give him any satisfaction. I told him to take em to small claims court. They had an office here in Texas. he paid his fees the court sent a summons...lol
The airline called and asked if he was serious..he said yup. So they either had to show up or face a default judjement..lol. he got everything he asked for plus more.
 
I do have a videocamera, but it's old and crappy. it may be enough for a liscense plate, but probably not a face in the dark (it is older than I am!)

Is a bat/paintballgun/pelletgun deadly force? I know that they each have the capability to kill, but so does a spoon.
 
As usual, XB nails it. Pretty much the same here in Massachusetts, regarding use of deadly force to protect property - can't do it.
 
People who light your home on fire, while your inside, get charged with attempted murder, OR - murder if, God forbid, they succeed. My best friends parents just dealt with their neighbor's delinquent son who attempted to set their home on fire. He was charged with 5 counts of attempted murder among other things.

You can shoot them. But chasing them off is probably going to make your life a lot less complicated.

I'm not getting in a gun fight over my car - again I'd attempt to chase them off, and THEN if they threaten me with deadly force - I'll consider protecting myself on that level.

Property is replacable. Freedom is not. You don't like idiots like this touching your car... now imagine being penned up in a prison with them for a few years... not my idea of a good time.
 
Yeah this is pretty sad but we could tie them up after we tackle them all. Granted the car in question was old and ghetto, IT was still somebodies PERSONAL property. Now if you wanted to go to a junk yard where they crush cars and flip one over fine. But dont do it in somebodies front yard. I would tackle them tie them up and call the police but i wold make sure that you had video evidence or a witness, Parent neighbor passer by. Whoever but get them. We will get them if they come back.
 
As it is now, If I were to catch someone doing this, I would grab my mossy 500 and get them to stop, I guess and call the police. I don't even have any ammunition for the thing.
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Bad idea. Don't present a gun unless you plan on using it. You will feel foolish when these "stupid kids" crush your skull with your unloaded shotgun.
 
Someone can be lighting fire on your thatch roof and you cannot shoot them.
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Actually - in NY state you can use deadly force against someone commiting arson, among several other violations....

From NYS Penal Law:

S 35.20 Justification; use of physical force in defense of premises and
in defense of a person in the course of burglary.
1. Any person may use physical force upon another person when he reasonably believes such to be necessary to prevent or terminate what he reasonably believes to be the commission or attempted commission by such other person of a crime involving damage to premises. He may use any degree of physical force, other than deadly physical force, which he reasonably believes to be necessary for such purpose, and he may use deadly physical force if he reasonably believes such to be necessary to prevent or terminate the commission or attempted commission of arson.
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A couple of notes on videoing. Don't end up with a sasquatch video. Don't worry about WATCHING what is happening. Worry about VIDEOING what is happening. Take care using zoom and focus and HOLD THE CAMERA STILL! You can watch the events later when you review the tape. Your job is to film, not to observe...
 
I still don't think that the standing on the front porch, and racking the slide, in itself is deadly force. I would not point the weapon at anyone, I would only be making my presence known, and insuring that the violent activity doesn't come to my door. I would conceed that stepping of from the porch, or pointing the weapon at one of the kids would constitute a DF threat.

We had a recent case here where a guy shot at someone breaking into his truck, and he was found innocent because inside the truck was a garage door opener that allowed access to his house.
 
:o Yes, I should have known better, I was looking for the inflammatory statement, not the facts (pun intended, ;) )....... Arson is different from turning over a car because the fire can spread rapidly and endanger the lives of people who are not even in the same building, as well as the firefighters who respond. Arson is often classed as attempted murder if the building is inhabited.

I am not sure what the law is on shooting arsonists in Louisiana. For me, if I arrived home with my family, and a kid was setting fire to my home (which I knew to be empty because my family was with me) I would not use lethal force. If he got away as a result, I still have my family, and they still have me. If a member of my family were in the house, that's another story. If I have to use lethal force to stop the spread of the fire, then so be it. My first actions will be to save people from the flames, not kill the flame starter though. Next, extinquish the fire if possible. That would be my take on it, regardless of what the law allowed. On a side note, I wonder if this allowance in the law is there to provide protection from crosses being burned in yards...... Something to ponder, I'd like to know the history on this one!

I still don't think that the standing on the front porch, and racking the slide, in itself is deadly force.
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I think this will have a lot to do with the political climate in your area. Remember people are convicted of armed robbery and assault with deadly weapons when they have BB guns and toy guns.
 
XB - Wasn't being smart or sarcastic. Only offering the information as I read it.

I personally think the video is the way to go. I saw some infra-red surveyllance cameras on the web recently that were relatively affordable too... They activate the VCR and everything based on motion...
 
What about running out there and removing them via physical force, e.g. pulling them off your car? Yes, I realize this is not tactical, but I'm looking for comments on the "legal" aspect.
 
^^^^^^^^^^^^

I'm not sure about that. Do you really think it's worth it to attempt to fight a bunch of crazy kids probably hopped up on drugs? Most likely, it would lead to someone (probably you) getting hurt.
 
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