I consider the "kiddie porn shows that the First ammendmant needs to be limited" arguement to be the same as the "RKBA? So, you think people should keep nuclear weapons in the basement, huh?" Nail the people who are exploiting and sexually assaulting the kids. Don't let them distract you by focusing on the by-product (the inanimate object). There are people who are in jail for taking a picture of their kids playing nude in a field of wildflowers (child porn!). The First Ammendment should be as damn close to absolute as possible, we can't let scare tactics destroy that right, either.
Stunned into silence!!
- Thread starter Shin-Tao
- Start date
I was going to only e-mail this long note directly to Shin-Tao, but he doesn't list his e-mail address. So here goes . . .
I'm still thinking about your encounter with the nutso co-worker. I wanted to flesh out my reason for my suggestion of silence/caution on your part.
I really don't know what happens with gun owners when anti's get upset with us--individually. I still consider myself new in that department.
I *do* know what happens to homeschoolers when someone gets upset with us for any reason. There have been many cases of a nice, well-behaved homeschooling family being hauled into court for spurious 'reasons.' Sometimes reported by someone in the education establishment (the competition). Others have had neighbors or even extended family members place an anonymous phone call to the local edition of Child Protectve Servics. "Educational neglect" has been a favorite charge. "Dirty house," and "playing unsupervised in the yard" (a fully-fenced back yard), have prompted government agencies to create a hell-on-earth for the family so accused.
I have the long-distance number for my homeschooling-related attorney on speed-dial on my phone out of concern of a vicious CPS worker at my door demanding entrance. Not that I'm doing anything wrong, mind you--we've followed all the applicable laws--but I've heard too many real and horrifying stories of the hell caused by an anonymous tip.
Forced entrance, strip-searching children (who were dressed in shorts and t-shirts anyway), looking around the house--including the pantry--, all this just for one family. This resulted in the Calabretta v. Floyd, et al case in California which was recently decided in the family's favor. (yeah!)
No, I'm not paranoid. But there are a few bad apples out there who really are out to make trouble, or get more tax dollars for the schools by making us enroll, or more money for the social services department by putting more children in foster care. If there are bad apples who don't like the freedom we homeschoolers enjoy, it's logical for me to extend that to the freedom gun owners enjoy and the high emotion the anti's whip up on that topic.
Talk to the fence-sitters, yes. But with the truly anti's--use extreme caution.
--Denise
Home School Legal Defense Association
[This message has been edited by sbryce (edited October 24, 2000).]
I'm still thinking about your encounter with the nutso co-worker. I wanted to flesh out my reason for my suggestion of silence/caution on your part.
I really don't know what happens with gun owners when anti's get upset with us--individually. I still consider myself new in that department.
I *do* know what happens to homeschoolers when someone gets upset with us for any reason. There have been many cases of a nice, well-behaved homeschooling family being hauled into court for spurious 'reasons.' Sometimes reported by someone in the education establishment (the competition). Others have had neighbors or even extended family members place an anonymous phone call to the local edition of Child Protectve Servics. "Educational neglect" has been a favorite charge. "Dirty house," and "playing unsupervised in the yard" (a fully-fenced back yard), have prompted government agencies to create a hell-on-earth for the family so accused.
I have the long-distance number for my homeschooling-related attorney on speed-dial on my phone out of concern of a vicious CPS worker at my door demanding entrance. Not that I'm doing anything wrong, mind you--we've followed all the applicable laws--but I've heard too many real and horrifying stories of the hell caused by an anonymous tip.
Forced entrance, strip-searching children (who were dressed in shorts and t-shirts anyway), looking around the house--including the pantry--, all this just for one family. This resulted in the Calabretta v. Floyd, et al case in California which was recently decided in the family's favor. (yeah!)
No, I'm not paranoid. But there are a few bad apples out there who really are out to make trouble, or get more tax dollars for the schools by making us enroll, or more money for the social services department by putting more children in foster care. If there are bad apples who don't like the freedom we homeschoolers enjoy, it's logical for me to extend that to the freedom gun owners enjoy and the high emotion the anti's whip up on that topic.
Talk to the fence-sitters, yes. But with the truly anti's--use extreme caution.
--Denise
Home School Legal Defense Association
[This message has been edited by sbryce (edited October 24, 2000).]
BadMedicine
Moderator
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by StevenS:
If this were the case, we'd have nothing to fear. Any such chip manufactured to Microsloth specifications would, by definition, always be in a state of reboot. Rendering the victim....er, user temporarily 'off line'. So obviously, this chip should first be implanted in all sitting, and aspiring politicians. Problem solved.[/quote]
Technically microsoft don't make micro-chips. They make software for the computers. Most people are quick to label microsoft a computer manufacturer, but you'd be hard pressed to find an actual machine made by them, unless it's pretty old.
Not to be fooled, intel and pentium can't seem to come up with a good chip either, and the way technologie evolves, the government would want to do brain surgery on you every 4 months, just to make sure you've got the "latest chip in crime prevention." They'd label it something like this...
NEW AN IMPROVED>>>CRIME DETTERIENT 2005!!!
Includes patches for errors in previous versions. Adresses the following errors:
*The sound of the dryer buzzer no-longer causes spasms!!!
*No more need to give the microwave a "wide birth."
*And the "traffic light" bug has also been effectively irradicated!!!
GET YOURS NOW!!
[This message has been edited by BadMedicine (edited October 24, 2000).]
If this were the case, we'd have nothing to fear. Any such chip manufactured to Microsloth specifications would, by definition, always be in a state of reboot. Rendering the victim....er, user temporarily 'off line'. So obviously, this chip should first be implanted in all sitting, and aspiring politicians. Problem solved.[/quote]
Technically microsoft don't make micro-chips. They make software for the computers. Most people are quick to label microsoft a computer manufacturer, but you'd be hard pressed to find an actual machine made by them, unless it's pretty old.
Not to be fooled, intel and pentium can't seem to come up with a good chip either, and the way technologie evolves, the government would want to do brain surgery on you every 4 months, just to make sure you've got the "latest chip in crime prevention." They'd label it something like this...
NEW AN IMPROVED>>>CRIME DETTERIENT 2005!!!
Includes patches for errors in previous versions. Adresses the following errors:
*The sound of the dryer buzzer no-longer causes spasms!!!
*No more need to give the microwave a "wide birth."
*And the "traffic light" bug has also been effectively irradicated!!!
GET YOURS NOW!!
[This message has been edited by BadMedicine (edited October 24, 2000).]
sbryce/Denise,
Your last post states with powerful effect what I have feared about having children. Since I am known to be against government and schooling as it now exists and that I have made operations as usual difficult for both local gov't and schools, and since I'm known to be a gun owner and vocal defender of our Constitution, I expect that if I had children "they (social services, et al) would use them against me.
Even my position on city council would not gain me much slack. In fact, my use of that seat to fight for liberty would only give "them" even greater cause to cut me off at the knees.
Unlike children, patriotic literature and guns and ammo can be hidden. But children give the SS too easy an excuse or too easy a tool with which to muzzle me and disarm me.
Am I being overly paranoid? Have I thus surrendered to *them* by likely never having children to pass my values down to? At fifty I am unlikely to be able to fight them by doing the latter. But I can fight them from city council for the remainder of my term and thereafter however I can.
Your last post states with powerful effect what I have feared about having children. Since I am known to be against government and schooling as it now exists and that I have made operations as usual difficult for both local gov't and schools, and since I'm known to be a gun owner and vocal defender of our Constitution, I expect that if I had children "they (social services, et al) would use them against me.
Even my position on city council would not gain me much slack. In fact, my use of that seat to fight for liberty would only give "them" even greater cause to cut me off at the knees.
Unlike children, patriotic literature and guns and ammo can be hidden. But children give the SS too easy an excuse or too easy a tool with which to muzzle me and disarm me.
Am I being overly paranoid? Have I thus surrendered to *them* by likely never having children to pass my values down to? At fifty I am unlikely to be able to fight them by doing the latter. But I can fight them from city council for the remainder of my term and thereafter however I can.
I would have to agree with those advocating you not talk about your pastime and guns with this person. I don't know where you live, but an individual as weird as this could turn you in on false accusations, causing you some grief at the minimum.
States like Connecticut have a rule where if you are considered unstable, they come and take your weapons away for an unspecified amount of time. Thank god I don't live there. I'm in Colorado although we are going through our own rock throwing and anti initiatives thanks to Columbine.
------------------
Robert
Littleton CO
NRA Life, CSSA, RMGO
States like Connecticut have a rule where if you are considered unstable, they come and take your weapons away for an unspecified amount of time. Thank god I don't live there. I'm in Colorado although we are going through our own rock throwing and anti initiatives thanks to Columbine.
------------------
Robert
Littleton CO
NRA Life, CSSA, RMGO
I'm surprised that no one is questioning the assumption that ALL violence must be stopped.
Our society has somehow come to simply accept the concept that there is no circumstance in which violence is acceptable. Strangely, this nodding, unthinking agreement accompanies a society in which violence takes place regularly. Would it not make sense to come to grips with the concept that violence MUST be met with instant, harsh, unhesitating violence?
"But that's WRONNNNNNNNG! Put a stop to it! Step right up to stop your violence today. Set the example, and maybe the bad guys will do so, as well. Maybe."
Save me from those who would save me from myself.
--L.P.
Our society has somehow come to simply accept the concept that there is no circumstance in which violence is acceptable. Strangely, this nodding, unthinking agreement accompanies a society in which violence takes place regularly. Would it not make sense to come to grips with the concept that violence MUST be met with instant, harsh, unhesitating violence?
"But that's WRONNNNNNNNG! Put a stop to it! Step right up to stop your violence today. Set the example, and maybe the bad guys will do so, as well. Maybe."
Save me from those who would save me from myself.
--L.P.
Al Mondroca
New member
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Long Path:
I'm surprised that no one is questioning the assumption that ALL violence must be stopped.
Our society has somehow come to simply accept the concept that there is no circumstance in which violence is acceptable. Strangely, this nodding, unthinking agreement accompanies a society in which violence takes place regularly. Would it not make sense to come to grips with the concept that violence MUST be met with instant, harsh, unhesitating violence?
[/quote]
Yep. My step-sons are both in public schools where the (typical nonsensical "zero tolerance") rule is that if a fight occurs, all the parties involved are punished, regardless of who started it or why. But their mother and I have made it _very_ clear to them that WE don't agree. If they're assaulted, they have our permission to do whatever they have to to defend themselves, and that we will back them up all the way.
I'm not interested in why a bully feels the need to threaten or attack a smaller child. I don't want him subjected to an "intervention" in which is his inappropriate anger is discussed and more constructive avenues for dealing with it are suggested.
I want his nose flattened--preferably by the intended victim. Small children can learn in a single instant not to touch a hot stove, because it hurts. Pain is a valuable instructional tool. Hornet have stings and snakes have fangs, and as a result much larger critters don't bother them unnecessarily. There's a lesson in that.
I'm surprised that no one is questioning the assumption that ALL violence must be stopped.
Our society has somehow come to simply accept the concept that there is no circumstance in which violence is acceptable. Strangely, this nodding, unthinking agreement accompanies a society in which violence takes place regularly. Would it not make sense to come to grips with the concept that violence MUST be met with instant, harsh, unhesitating violence?
[/quote]
Yep. My step-sons are both in public schools where the (typical nonsensical "zero tolerance") rule is that if a fight occurs, all the parties involved are punished, regardless of who started it or why. But their mother and I have made it _very_ clear to them that WE don't agree. If they're assaulted, they have our permission to do whatever they have to to defend themselves, and that we will back them up all the way.
I'm not interested in why a bully feels the need to threaten or attack a smaller child. I don't want him subjected to an "intervention" in which is his inappropriate anger is discussed and more constructive avenues for dealing with it are suggested.
I want his nose flattened--preferably by the intended victim. Small children can learn in a single instant not to touch a hot stove, because it hurts. Pain is a valuable instructional tool. Hornet have stings and snakes have fangs, and as a result much larger critters don't bother them unnecessarily. There's a lesson in that.
Solitar wrote <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Unlike children, patriotic literature and guns and ammo can be hidden. But children give the SS too easy an excuse or too easy a tool with which to muzzle me and disarm me.
Am I being overly paranoid? Have I thus surrendered to *them* by likely never having children to pass my values down to? At fifty I am unlikely to be able to fight them by doing the latter. But I can fight them from city council for the remainder of my term and thereafter however I can.[/quote]
Two thoughts:
1) That Million Mom March photo linked to by our John/az2 has been on my mind: http://www.guntruths.com/images/1ST_MMM_MARCH.gif. Thinking about generalities regarding the evils of war is not easy; thinking about an individual's sheer terror as she is naked standing in a line waiting to be shot is extremely difficult. I also keep thinking about that last M*A*S*H tv episode when the folks were in the bus, keeping silent, hiding from the enemy, and one lady had tears running down her cheeks. Turns out she had smothered her own child to keep the busload of people from being discovered by the enemy. This mama's heart aches and aches.
2) Regarding your having no children . . . We are fellow soldiers in the same war. Some are front-line infantryman, others are stationed at HQ. We have different titles and tasks but the same goal. If your choice has been to not have children, that's your choice, whatever motivates it. If you feel freer in your childless state to be very vocal, great, go be REALLY vocal!
Meanwhile, I'm training 5 children, so maybe I'm making up for the 1.8 you didn't have?
--Denise
Am I being overly paranoid? Have I thus surrendered to *them* by likely never having children to pass my values down to? At fifty I am unlikely to be able to fight them by doing the latter. But I can fight them from city council for the remainder of my term and thereafter however I can.[/quote]
Two thoughts:
1) That Million Mom March photo linked to by our John/az2 has been on my mind: http://www.guntruths.com/images/1ST_MMM_MARCH.gif. Thinking about generalities regarding the evils of war is not easy; thinking about an individual's sheer terror as she is naked standing in a line waiting to be shot is extremely difficult. I also keep thinking about that last M*A*S*H tv episode when the folks were in the bus, keeping silent, hiding from the enemy, and one lady had tears running down her cheeks. Turns out she had smothered her own child to keep the busload of people from being discovered by the enemy. This mama's heart aches and aches.
2) Regarding your having no children . . . We are fellow soldiers in the same war. Some are front-line infantryman, others are stationed at HQ. We have different titles and tasks but the same goal. If your choice has been to not have children, that's your choice, whatever motivates it. If you feel freer in your childless state to be very vocal, great, go be REALLY vocal!
Meanwhile, I'm training 5 children, so maybe I'm making up for the 1.8 you didn't have?
--Denise
A
AmericanFreeBird
Guest
Unfourtunately there are many out there with this level of stupidity. Approximately 41% of registered voters at least. That's about how many the polls say will likely vote for Gore.
Ray VonAsch
New member
Al Mondraca, Right on. I have done the same with my 4 children and they have grown up as ladies & gentlemen, and are treated with respect by their peers. As an added benefit, the "principal" doesn't call anymore as he knows I will only give him a bad case of indigestion. Ray
Has this person ever served in the military?
Rumor has it that "chips being implanted" is already being implemented in the military. My friend, who has recently enlisted, said that she received a series of shots (standard procedure) and one of the shots was unusual in the size and shape of the needle used. SHe also stated that she feels a hard bump under her skin and when she asked the medic about it a few days later all he said was that it was probably a reaction to the shot and not to worry about it.
Paranoia? - maybe but who knows what is really going on.
Rumor has it that "chips being implanted" is already being implemented in the military. My friend, who has recently enlisted, said that she received a series of shots (standard procedure) and one of the shots was unusual in the size and shape of the needle used. SHe also stated that she feels a hard bump under her skin and when she asked the medic about it a few days later all he said was that it was probably a reaction to the shot and not to worry about it.
Paranoia? - maybe but who knows what is really going on.