Studying Gun Control Opinions

Persons of a relatively individualist orientation should oppose gun control, which they are likely to see as denigrating the ideal of individual self-reliance. By the same token, individuals who are less inclined toward individualism should favor gun control in order to express trust in, solidarity with, and collective responsibility for the well-being of, their fellow citizens. These are the hypotheses that we decided to test.

The way I understand this hypothesis, libertarians are more likely to be opposed to gun control. That seems like a given to me. But it kind of seems like the point being made is that people who are against gun control are self-centered and think only of themselves, whereas people who are in favor of gun control are thinking of the common good.

First off, I don't know what level of "gun control" is being imagined, but guns are for the common good. The RKBA is a political right, necessary to the security of free government. And free government is for the common good. Further, aside from the political right, I believe that the RKBA makes a people safer.

Secondly, I do not agree that I would show "trust in, solidarity with, and collective responsibility for the well-being of my fellow citizens" by disarming them. What a foreign idea!
 
Hugh-
You win the Cupie Doll. Now, I'm not saying that hypothesis is what this prelim questionaire is intended to support, because I pulled that hypothesis from another paper on the subject that Dan wrote. But it seems likely to me that it's part of the same body of work.

However, your analysis of the interesting nuance of wording is, IMHO, right on the mark. Time will tell, as Dan has promised to reveal more in due time.
Rich
 
I started to take it and just found myself too nauseated to continue. The questions seemed very stacked. If someone wants to wade through that, fine.
 
Well, Rich, you do come across as a reasonable man but...
As one who has lived in the world of Academia, I expect neither useful nor friendly results from Professor Dan Kahan's "survey". I suspect it's a grad student designed piece based on a grant. It's function is to pad the Professor's curriculum vitae. Nothing more or less than that. I do however admire your optimism.
 
mick-
When all is said and done, if it's a hit piece, so be it. It would give us that much more experience in debunking and exposing Junk Science, yes?

Meantime, I withhold judgment other than the questions I've already raised.
Rich
 
Folks -- Having collected quite a number of responses, for which I'm extremely extremely grateful, I'm about to take the survey off-line.

It will take me a day or 2 to analysze the data, but once I have I'll report back what I found and give you the fuller explanation of how this all realtes to my basic research interests.

You, can, though, get a sense in the meantime of what the project is about by looking at some of the papers that my collaborator Don Braman (an anthropologist, not a grad student!) & I have written. Good ones inlcude "Gun Litigation: A Culture Theory Critique," http://research.yale.edu/culturalcognition/documents/cultural_critique_gun_litigation.pdf, and Cultural Cognition and Public Policy, http://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=746508. Thanks again for the help -- including the thoughtful and candid feedback on the question wording -- and I look forward to continuing the conversation.

--Dan
 
The text of the survey is duplicated here:
http://www.thefiringline.com/library/yale-survey.html

Please keep in mind that the purpose of the study was/is not to count people for and against gun control, or liberals vs conservatives. The purpose was/is to examine correlations between beliefs about government and risk perception on one hand, and beliefs about gun control on the other.
 
Looks like I missed the survey. Oh well! :( I never was good at judging Shibboleths anyway.

Opinions about opinions? What about opinions about facts? I wonder about what would happen if it was rewritten to find correlations between the subject's objective knowledge pertaining to the facts of Quaternary climatic cycles, population biology, behavioral economics and cultural evolution versus gun control laws?
 
The basic premise of the previous (similar) studies is this:

Three variables together substantially determine a person's orientation on gun control. Those scales are:
egalitarian <-> hierarchical
solidarist <-> individualist
male <-> female

Roughly speaking, my interpretation of these is:
Egalitarians believe that formal ranks are detrimental, and that society would work better if people concerned themselves with things outside of their specific role.
Hierarchists believe that people should stick to their roles, that specialization isn't just for insects.
Solidarists believe that (personal?) problems are solved best when society works together to solve them, while individualists believe that (personal?) problems are solved best alone, or with only voluntary help.

I don't agree with these categories, and the one paper I read that used them started by citing another author who theorized that people are generally divisible into _three_ categories: egalitarian, hierarchical, and individualist. The solidarist category, it seems to me, was added in order to create two independent scales that the study could measure separately. Social scientists' regression models evidently don't do well with fuzzy logic. Anyway, I think the three-group model is much more reasonable, and if my explanations above seem strange, that's because I have trouble conceptualizing solidarists as opposed to egalitarians.

The conclusion of prior studies, and I have no doubt this one will conclude similarly because the conclusion seems trivial, is that egalitarians and solidarists favor gun control, while hierarchists and individualists dislike gun control. The gender scale (which isn't in _this_ study because the survey above didn't ask about gender) was considered important in prior studies because there was positive correlation between females and gun control (vs males and gun control) that could not be explained by other variables.

The result of these studies was the conclusion that utilitarian (statistical) arguments on gun control are doomed to fail, because people will not abandon their philosophical roots when presented with utilitarian reasons for doing so. The authors plead with the academic community to start framing the discussion in ideological terms, which they realize is difficult because such discussions generally end up degenerating to swearing and insults. Still, they think that there's a possibility for a neutral ideological idiom that can be used to discuss the philosophies of both sides of the issue without resorting to (useless) statistics.

The questions about nuclear power and global warming are meant to measure risk perception, or more accurately, they're meant to determine which of several risks you find more acceptable. In the case of nuclear power, the risks are obviously those of accidents and leakage when the spent fuel rods are stored in e.g. Nevada, vs the risks of not having enough electricity and/or using up more fossil fuels to compensate. In the case of global warming, the risks are obvious (if we're in fact causing global warming), and the counter-risks would be temporary economic stagnation as energy sources are limited during the transition to more environmentally friendly power sources.
 
Wow.
Thanks much.

The problem I see is the very plea to move this from a statistical analysis to an ideological one. This is very dangerous in Public Policy, as it begs for action without regard to consequence; action based on emotion rather than social science.

Clearly the gun grabbers would prefer to appeal to emotion than to logic. This is their hallmark. Much more effective to trot out pics of dead kids than pics of unraped women.

If tyme is on the mark, the writings would seem to give credibility to that form of debate.
Rich
 
egalitarians and solidarists favor gun control, while hierarchists and individualists dislike gun control.

Well, maybe it's just me, but I think "egalitarians and solidarists" sounds an awful lot like "yankees", and "hierarchists and individualists" sounds like "Southerners". But I don't mean to offend yankees here ... I reckon if y'all wanted gun control you'd be hanging out on some other forum.
 
I am not sure the formulation works. Anyone looking at Oleg Volk's posters sees immediately that his position on self defense is that anyone has such a right. Thats seems pretty egalitarian to me.
 
The problem I see is the very plea to move this from a statistical analysis to an ideological one. This is very dangerous in Public Policy, as it begs for action without regard to consequence;
The article spent quite a lot of time talking about other studies that conclude that statistical analysis won't convince anyone of anything. Think about it. If someone came up with a study that concluded that private gun ownership costs 10k lives a year, and you agreed with the conclusion, would you give up your RKBA? That's the issue.

The authors argue that _neither_ ideological extremism _nor_ utilitarian (statistical) arguments are productive. One suggestion is a compromise where gun owners agree to registration, while anti-gunners agree to recognition of the RKBA as an individual right. This (unoriginal) suggestion is intended, I gather, to make the two ideological extremes less extreme, so that they might eventually meet in the middle. I had a hard time not laughing.

If tyme is on the mark, the writings would seem to give credibility to that form of debate.
Not really. They suggest the creation of a new idiomatic language that bridges the gap between "From my cold, dead hands," and "It's for the children!"

The authors go so far as to call people on both sides of the ideological divide "expressive zealots":
"By speaking in the muted tones of public safety in a (vain) effort to avoid giving offense, moderate commentators, politicians, and citizens cede the rhetorical stage to these expressive zealots, who happily seize on the gun debate as an opportunity to deride their cultural adversaries and stigmatize them as deviants." (SSRN 286205, p. 34.)

Rabbi, it's not 100%; the argument is simply that those three variables are better predictors of RKBA ideology than anything else (read: better than any other variables the researchers could think up and try to measure). Just about everyone in Oleg's pictures, I think it's safe to say, is an individualist. I'm not sure how effective his pictures are at changing the opinions of egalitarians ("It takes a village" types).
 
By the same token, individuals who are less inclined toward individualism should favor gun control in order to express trust in, solidarity with, and collective responsibility for the well-being of, their fellow citizens. These are the hypotheses that we decided to test.
On the contrary - I see that people who do not trust their fellow citizens are the most rabid proponents of gun control.

They project their own unacceptable feelings of violence and their deep-seated unconscious worry that if they had a gun they'd murder anyone who crossed them, out to everyone else in society as a form of psychological defense mechanism. They therefore feel that nobody else can be trusted to carry and use a firearm responsibly, because of their own mental defect.

Far from being in "solidarity" with their fellow citizens, they seem to look upon them as dangerous moral degenerates for whom the law and the availability of tools is the only restraint against their committing murder and mayhem.

Dr. Sarah Thompson, a psychologist, wrote a paper on this subject entitled Raging Against Self-Defense: A Psychiatrist Examines The Anti-Gun Mentality.

I recommend reading it.
 
Hi, everyone. Again, I’m very grateful for all the help I got on my survey from forum members. Now let me fill you in on how the survey is related to my research. (Excuse the length -- prolixity is an occupational hazard!)

It might help to start with the nature of the research more generally (the outlines of which have been described in pretty accurate terms in some of the recent posts). I and a number of other scholars are investigating what we call the influence of “cultural cognition” in legal and policy disputes. “Cultural cognition” refers to the tendency of cultural values to shape not only people’s moral understandings of what goals the law should pursue but also their *factual beliefs* about what effects laws actually achieve. Because it’s hard for most individuals to figure out from personal experience whether the death penalty deters murder, whether global warming is a serious danger, etc., they tend to rely on the views of those they trust. The people they trust, not surprisingly, are others who share their cultural values. As a result, factual beliefs about what dangers society faces and how the law should abate them become polarized along cultural lines.

One area where this seems to be so is gun control. The gun debate can be framed as one between competing conceptions of risk: that too little control will result in increased gun violence and accidents, and that too much control will render law-abiding persons unable to defend themselves from violent predation. We predicted -- and confirmed in a study we did last summer -- that which of these risks people see as more significant would depend on their cultural views. Persons who prefer a society that puts a premium on individual autonomy (we call them individualists) as well as those who prefer a society with myriad clearly distinguished social roles (we call them hierarchists; I wish we had a more accurate term, but we pretty much inherited it from others) tend to think that guns are safe, and that excessive gun regulation increases crime on net. In contrast, persons who favor group prerogatives over individual ones (communitarians or solidarists), as well as persons who favor obliteration of social distinctions of all sort (egalitarians), worry more about gun accidents and crime and think gun control is an effective way to address those problems.

Now as a number of you noted, it’s perfectly obvious that persons with “libertarian” political sensibilities would be strongly supportive of gun rights. But our point is a bit more subtle: it’s that individuals who hold particular cultural outlooks end up forming *factual* beliefs that support their values. Individualists believe that private ownership of guns *makes society safer.* Communitarians believe that private ownership of guns *makes society less safe*. So even if they could put their bigger philosophical differences aside and agree that the issue should be considered only in utilitarian terms, they’d *still* disagree about whether gun control is a good idea.

We believe this finding has important implications for law. Many think that the gun debate, for example, can be resolved simply by amassing more and more statistics on whether “more guns” mean “more crime” or “less” (to paraphrase the titles of some famous econometrics studies). Our work suggests, though, that this strategy won’t work (“more statistics, less persuasion” -- the title of one of our early papers). Individuals can’t be expected to agree on the facts until they find some way to work out their basic cultural differences. That's a tall order, yes, but one we believe would be desirable; we are committed pluralists, and find cultural partisanship of any sort is subversive of deliberative democracy and sound policymaking. Much of our work is therefore committed to identifying the circumstances in which individuals of diverse cultural persuasions can constructively engage in deliberation about guns and other contentious issues.

BTW, we *definitely* don't believe all citizens who oppose various forms of gun control or who favor it are zealots or extremists. On the contrary, the remarkable thing is how few of them are relative to the impression one gets from watching tv or reading newspapers, etc. (I credit Don Kates, who wrote a wonderful essay called Public Opinion: The Effects of Extremist Discourse on the Gun Debate, in The Great American Gun Debate 93 (D. B. Kates*Jr. and G. Kleck ed., 1997), and with whom I've had many profitable personal dealings, for helping me to get this important truth.

The survey you took part in, and offered me candid (!) and helpful feedback on, seeks to extend the work we've already done on this topic. One belief I have, for example, is that persons who have *lots* of knowledge about and interest in guns tend to be different from persons who just happen to oppose gun control for general cultural or ideological reasons. My hunch is that the fomer are a bit more “individualistic” and less “hierarchic,” in our terms. The results of the trial survey I ran with you in the last few days --one I publicized only on pro-gun discussion fora -- seemed to bear that out. The scores on our “culture scales” -- which came at the beginning of the survey -- showed respondents to be highly individualist but about average on the hierarchy-egalitarian scale.

I also found that there were interesting divergences among gun enthusiasts on the environment. Most of you were fairly skeptical about that global warming is a serious threat. But persons who were more “individualistic” felt that more strongly than persons who were more “hierarchic.” I found that result pretty interesting, and consistent with my hunch that one should be careful about lumping all gun enthusiasts together. On the basis of these results, I plan to include questions in future general population sample surveys to identify how much experience respondents have had with guns and how strongly they feel about the issue, etc.

Thanks again for helping me out. If you want more information about the nature of this work, check out “cultural cognition project” website (http://research.yale.edu/culturalcognition/). I’m also happy to answer questions, either here or by email (dan.kahan@yale.edu).

Dan Kahan
Yale Law School
 
“Cultural cognition” refers to the tendency of cultural values to shape not only people’s moral understandings of what goals the law should pursue but also their *factual beliefs* about what effects laws actually achieve.
Dan, you should have a look at the thread in this same forum entitled Seatbelts and Individual Freedom for a perfect case study on conflicting beliefs about the proper goals and resulting effects of law.

Also, with respect to differing "factual beliefs," I find that gun-control advocates are often ignorant of the most basic metrics of gun safety in society.

Ask the average gun-control activist how many kids age 0-14 were killed in gun accidents in a given year, and they'd probably give you a number that is ten to a hundred times larger than the actual recorded figure of fewer than 100.

Ask them how many times a gun was used defensively, and they'll likely cite only the tiny handful of cases where the attacker was actually killed by the defender, rather than the hundreds of thousands of cases every year where hinting at, revealing, drawing, or pointing a firearm was enough to put an end to the attack, in an effort to minimize the "self-defense" argument against their proposals.

I've also noticed significant statistical dishonesty among the anti-gun crowd, lumping suicide and justified police shootings in with "gun death" statistics, and including young adults aged 18-24 in with "children," artificially inflating what should be an objective, factual figure.

They also tend to lump figures from diverse parts of the country together - parts of the country with widely divergent laws on firearms ownership, possession, and carry. A significant percentage of violent crimes and homicides in the country took place in a few major cities where guns are strictly controlled or effectively banned - New York, Chicago, DC, Los Angeles, Boston - while Vermont, which has no restrictions on open or concealed carry of firearms, consistently ranks at the bottom of violent crime rates, year after year.

They compare the entire United States with the entire country of Norway to try to sell us on more gun restrictions, when Norway has higher violent crime rates than zero-gun-control Vermont.

I believe that there is an objective reality, one that exists independent of political philosophy, and it is that factual reality that the anti-gun camp seems to have a very difficult time dealing with.

They may have their own set of "factual beliefs," but in order to arrive at those beliefs they must willfully disregard all the evidence that consistently discredits them.
 
Dan, I think you have a really interesting project going on. Thanks for coming to this forum and engaging us.

To those of you who haven't read Mr. Kahan's Gun Control Litigation PDF (top of this page), I suggest you do, it is quite intriguing.
 
"Much of our work is therefore committed to identifying the circumstances in which individuals of diverse cultural persuasions can constructively engage in deliberation about guns and other contentious issues."

My guess is that, for most members of this forum, in order to reach the circumstances you wish to identify, all gun laws would need to be repealed, and then we would start our deliberations from that point.

And, with 70+ years of experience with gun control laws to reflect upon, I suspect the "deliberations" wouldn't get very far.

Of course, members of this forum tend to be more strict in their interpretation of the Second Amendment than gun owners as a whole.
 
“Cultural cognition” refers to the tendency of cultural values to shape not only people’s moral understandings of what goals the law should pursue but also their *factual beliefs* about what effects laws actually achieve.

That doesn't seem to be inventing the light bulb or anything. I mean, of course. It's tough to find a law with societal impact that doesn't have its origin in social values/beliefs. And again, it seems fairly obvious that those who see the need to create the law will have confidence in its effectiveness to achieve its intended goal, and furthermore will defend it relentlessly even in the face of facts to the contrary. Those of like minds will no doubt follow along and agree with those who share their political mindset. This is ego.

Classifying this issue as a debate between individualists and hierarchists is only skimming the surface. Laws in general, it could be said, are founded largely on psychology, but laws concerning gun control are certainly influenced to a large degree by the mental and emotional makeup of the individual.

One could contend that this is equally a debate between the secure and the afraid, the sexually mature and the immature, the self-reliant and the easily influenced. These groups may not be so easily classified as individualists or hierarchists. The emotional and psychological factors that shape opinions on firearms in particular cannot be ignored as to how THEY influence the origins of the legislation itself: Personal belief; which, as it multiplies through groups of individuals, results in social conscience, or "cultural cognition" if you like.
 
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