Striker fired works . . . how?

I also noticed that no one mentioned GLOCK LEG OR GLOCK FOOT.
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Actually that has been mentioned 2 or 3 times in this thread, but it's easy to read past it. It's a relevant part of the discussion because the hesitation folks have about carrying Glocks isn't about the safety of the guns when sitting on a table, the caution is in handling the guns while carrying on a day to day basis.

Glocks are safe guns. It's in the area of routine administrative handling by people that they have weaknesses that some other designs do not have and that's the heart of the question. It's what folks need to be aware of with Glocks.

The most common causes of UDs with Glocks are, in order of occurrence:

1.When holstering. When something gets in the trigger guard while holstering the gun, that depresses the trigger--Glock leg.

2. When disassembling for cleaning.

3. The least common, grabbing for the gun when it's dropped, in a scrum, or tripping while holding the gun in the hand, the trigger finger fits naturally into the trigger guard and the trigger is depressed.

tipoc
 
A Glock in and of itself is perfectly safe to carry without a safety.

It is in my opinion, based on knowledge of how the system works and how other modern striker pistols work, to be one of the safest designs available, outside of the true DAO striker pistols.

At rest, the striker is physically unable to move down and release the striker, due to being physically blocked from moving in that manner. Then you have all the other passive safeties and other features. It is a well thought out system.


A manual safety does have some benefits, as it can mitigate user error... But they are not foolproof either.

Modern shooting techniques dictate that a manual safety is to be disengaged during the draw, so it is not active when the pistol is on target. Finger is off the trigger unless you will be shooting immediately.

Forgetting to engage the safety prior to reholstering is a possibility.

Most who have a ND with a striker pistol do so when reholstering.

If you can't be bothered to look and ensure the holster is clear first, can you also claim that you would always engage a manual safety?

There is no foolproof system, if a gun can be made to fire, it can also be fired at a time unintended.

Manual safeties, when broken down and looked at critically, do add some margin of error, but it's not a vast amount.
 
tipoc said:
Actually that has been mentioned 2 or 3 times in this thread, but it's easy to read past it. It's a relevant part of the discussion because the hesitation folks have about carrying Glocks isn't about the safety of the guns when sitting on a table, the caution is in handling the guns while carrying on a day to day basis.

Glocks are safe guns. It's in the area of routine administrative handling by people that they have weaknesses that some other designs do not have and that's the heart of the question. It's what folks need to be aware of with Glocks.

The most common causes of UDs with Glocks are, in order of occurrence:

1.When holstering. When something gets in the trigger guard while holstering the gun, that depresses the trigger--Glock leg.

2. When disassembling for cleaning.

3. The least common, grabbing for the gun when it's dropped, in a scrum, or tripping while holding the gun in the hand, the trigger finger fits naturally into the trigger guard and the trigger is depressed.
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You're probably correct, but Item 2 just boggles my mind.
 
And as I pointed out earlier, alot of people for some reason feel the need to trip the trigger when they are finished shooting......as you will see Hickok45 do every time he is finished with a glock???
 
And as I pointed out earlier, alot of people for some reason feel the need to trip the trigger when they are finished shooting......as you will see Hickok45 do every time he is finished with a glock???
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On a Glock, and other similar pistols, the only primary external evidence that the gun does not have a round chambered is for the trigger to be back.

It makes sense to store the gun in that condition if it's unloaded.

In addition, people who owned Glocks back when they came in the original "Tupperware" boxes may have gotten in the habit of storing them with the trigger back since that was the mandated condition for the gun if it was to be placed back in the factory box.
 
if it has not been clearly stated before, there is an important part that must be clearly stated.

The only condition in which the glock is safe is if nothing pulls the trigger after pulling the little doojie thingy that keeps the trigger from moving. I'm going to say that this is a really unusual thing in nature, you couldn't hook it on a branch or belt loop, or any other unusual feature in the course of a half dozen lifetimes unless you were either crazy unlucky, or just amazingly careless.

as long as the aforementioned accidental hard and perfectly situated yank on the trigger never happens, it is safe.

The glock is therefore almost absolutely safe from accidental discharge if you are conscientious about keeping your finger out of the darned loop and away from the trigger. If you can't do that, you need an external safety. If you are concerned that you might accidentally do it, you should get one with a manual safety.

What all of the complaining is about, I don't know. The gun is safe unless a person pulls the trigger without meaning to. Using an external safety can prevent that. If a person wants one there is no one else that belongs in the decision making process except to share facts.
 
On a Glock, and other similar pistols, the only primary external evidence that the gun does not have a round chambered is for the trigger to be back.
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maybe it's only the later generations, but my glock has an extension on the extractor that pushes out of the slide. It's sharp and large and there is no doubt that it is loaded, just slide your finger down. There is also a small gap in which you can see a cartridge if you look for one.
 
No, both of those are present, to at least some extent in the older generations. The extension on the extractor isn't there, but you can still tell by feel the difference between an empty chamber and one with a case/cartridge in the chamber.

That's why I said "primary external evidence". I should have deleted 'only' when I added the qualifier 'primary' but didn't.
 
I know of a person who pulled the trigger to store as a habit.

One day at his CCW qualifications, he did that after completing his shooting, and fired an ND at the ground. Because he was warned not to do that, he was immediately disqualified for his negligance. Force of habit, and he forgot to check to see if the gun was unchambered caused the ND. He lost his privilege to carry as a result, and because he was so embarrassed, he never applied again for his carry permit again because he lost all confidence in his handling of firearms. Just one case, I know, but it's a lesson.


IMHO relying on visual inspection of the trigger position is a poor habit of knowing whether the gun is chambered or not, since every gun is different.
 
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I store firearms with the actions decocked or in a relaxed position.

This is mostly a habit from the military, where you clear and drop the hammer before returning the rifle to the armory or to be put away or carried away from the range. In the armory they have a clearing bucket for this. At the range, you aim downrange and pull the trigger.

Checking clear is a necessity anytime you are putting away a firearm, especially after the range, or the firearm was loaded for whatever reason.

Dropping a hammer, releasing the striker, or whatever else is required to put the action in a relaxed state... Is ultimately just an extra step that really doesn't do anything of practicality, but it will let you know real quick if you failed to do the most important thing first, check clear. Not the preferred method of finding your mistake for sure.

If you fail to check clear, and don't decocked the action in some way, you are still putting away a loaded firearm, in a manner that can lead to trouble in the future.

So you can't say that the habbit is a bad idea that will lead to a ND, as failing to check clear can easily lead to an ND the next time you pull the firearm out of the safe. You couldn't be bothered to check clear before you put it away, can you really be expected to check clear before fooling with the trigger a month from now when you grab it from the safe... Probably not.
 
I guess that the important thing that we all agree on is that having rules, and a process, are what make things safe. Clear and decock before putting away is a good rule and process. Assuming that the thing is still loaded when you take it up again, and checking the chamber to verify is another good rule and process. There are dozens of important rules and steps that must be taken every darned time a gun is even touched, and in theory, by following those rules and processes there would never be an accident.

There is a rule or step that is used in japan, called 'pointing and calling.' Essentially, you speak the steps as you tick them off of the list. Empty the gun, say so as you do it, watch yourself do it. Your brain lights up a little brighter when you do.

If I could make a mandatory post, this is it.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pointing_and_calling

I have add. I have a terrible problem of losing things. My wife taught me to speak the words when I do something. "I put my keys on the phone table.' I remember what I did.

I have times that I can't even get out of the house because I can't get everything together in one place. I might set my wallet down while I get my keys, set down a letter to open the door, etc, when something leaves my hands it literally vanishes from my mind. I have come to use a rule, a four part checklist, and the four essential items go into a single pocket. Gun in right front, wallet right back, flip phone in shirt or left back and keys in right front. I slap every pocket maybe a dozen times until I know that I have collected everything I need.

You guys can't imagine what it is like to do any sort of work that involves a bunch of tools, but a good belt is helpful.
 
One day at his CCW qualifications, he did that after completing his shooting, and fired an ND at the ground.
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Playing the devil's advocate, if you're going to have an ND, having it at the range is infinitely preferable to having it at home. Obviously he should have been pointing the gun downrange instead of at the ground.

I'm not going to ever argue heavily against the practice of dryfiring the gun after practice since I strongly advocate dryfiring on a regular basis for practice. If one is unable to do the one safely, then obviously the other isn't possible either. Similarly, if a person can manage dryfiring for practice safely then it shouldn't be too horribly difficult to safely dryfire the gun after a range session and before storage.
IMHO relying on visual inspection of the trigger position is a poor habit of knowing whether the gun is chambered or not, since every gun is different.
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One should not "rely" on anything short of visual and tactile examination of the chamber. But other methods can be useful as long as the person knows how the gun functions.
 
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