Striker 9mm, help me decide!

“Not buying Glock”...

Not saying Glock is the very best polymer, striker-fired pistol but when you consider EVERY aspect of owning a device to protect yourself... not sure how one could walk away from the brand.

That said, I relish the ergonomics that translates into the shootability advantages of the P-10C and VP9 pistols. In honesty, the 19X is softer in perceived recoil than either of these and similarly accurate. I understand that the M&P2.0 is very similar to both the P-10C & VP9 in that regard.

However, please consider the following:

https://youtu.be/Z9FTgpEKnPo


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Chui said:
“Not buying Glock”...

Not saying Glock is the very best polymer, striker-fired pistol but when you consider EVERY aspect of owning a device to protect yourself... not sure how one could walk away from the brand.

That said, I relish the ergonomics that translates into the shootability advantages of the P-10C and VP9 pistols. In honesty, the 19X is softer in perceived recoil than either of these and similarly accurate. I understand that the M&P2.0 is very similar to both the P-10C & VP9 in that regard.

However, please consider the following:

https://youtu.be/Z9FTgpEKnPo


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Ah-oh...but.....I agree.:)
 
Interesting on the note on robust build. I'm a firm believer that $$ usually equal quality. Especially when you throw in European. So for guns, German should >> Czech, so I'm enlightened to hear about that comparison.

The things I saw about VP9 issues seems to be related to breaking it in with light ammo. But the P10 at least 2018 reviews said it gobbled up everything. mmmm...decisions. And no local shop has it I already checked
 
I'm a firm believer that $$ usually equal quality. Especially when you throw in European. So for guns, German should >> Czech, so I'm enlightened to hear about that comparison.
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Having owned a lot of HKs and a lot of CZs, I had very good experiences with both on the whole. For CZ it was the P10-C, the P-01 (a number of them) the 75B, the 75BD, and maybe another in there. For HKs I owned multiple P2000s, P2000sks, P30s, and USP Compacts. My HKs were generally flawless, with the exception of one HK P30. That pistol had numerous ejection issues, regardless of the ammo type, and led to what has been my worst customer service experience of all time (however many here have had good luck with HK customer service). With the CZs I did have some issues with one 75B, but I think that was on me being very new to handguns.

When I say robustness, I mean the internal parts themselves. The barrel and the dual trigger bars on the P10-C are very chunky, as were all the other parts I saw. Someone could argue the pistol could be lighter by removing material and that the robustness is actually laziness in terms of machining, and maybe that's true. There were people that had early issues with the striker rotating. Mine could rotate, but never did so in a way that was problematic. To my knowledge this has been redesigned. Mine had some issues with polymer flashing of the trigger rubbing on the frame, but I've had that with Gen 1 M&Ps as well. I didn't have the stiff magazine release issues that others ran into, though again they have recently redesigned the magazine release. To me CZ has taken the issues as they came and fixed them relatively quickly.

With the VP9 there were early issues with the trigger bar spring becoming detached. To my knowledge those were fixed as well. I remember reading a post by Bruce Gray at the time where he stated he felt the P320 was more robust than the VP9. However, Gray has always had a strong business relationship with SIG so there could well be some bias there (although his shop does plenty of HK business as well). In the "element" testing a lot of comments seemed to indicate that a stronger recoil spring would help the pistol go back into battery more forcefully. Of course that could create some issues with light loads. I believe the tactical model included this spring and newer VP9s include it as well (seems to be some suggestion they just use the same spring from the VP40 as Glock tried with the Gen 4 and then had issues). I'm not a big fan of how the striker block rotates out of the way on the VP9 as I'd rather it just retract, but idk if it ever caused any issues unlike the striker issues with the P10-C.

Another factor I found was if I wanted replacement parts for the P10-C I was out of luck. The factory had them to do repairs but had no interest in selling them to me. I was always able to get parts for hammer fired HKs either through their CS or through hkparts.net. Not sure about the VP9.
 
If it is your first purchase I would consider the total expenses you will incur. Factor in the cost of at least six mags, possible sight upgrades, holster options and spare parts. Then make your decision. They will all do what they need to.


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Not sure why the Walther PPQ isn't getting any love. I got my sister one and she loves it. I personally feel it has one of the best triggers for striker fired guns. I carry a Glock 43 and had to change the trigger and trigger connector to get it close to the Walther trigger. I put a Double Diamond connector and an Agency Arms Trigger on my 43. The Walther has more take up, but the feel and break is very good out of the box.

The ergonomics feel great in my hand and it has interchangeable back straps. I'm not sure I can say if the Walther is any more or less accurate than other striker fired guns, but the stock 3 dot sights allows for a higher degree of precision than Glock's ball and goal post sights. Walther also has a Limited Lifetime Warranty.

The Walther definitely deserves a second look if you are shopping for polymer striker fired guns.
 
I just went down to the LGS who had a VP9 on consignment. I was surprised at how much i Hated the trigger. Seemed really mushy from what I saw online, and I watched a LOT of trigger videos. Grip felt great, just awesome. Slide release seemed like I might one day hit it with my top thumb, IDK.

Now, it's broken in sure, but that should make it smoother, not gritty. They had a new glock 19 and that felt normal for a glock, and a MP2.0. Both had less takeup after the wall than the VP9. Reset for the VP9 was also greater in distance and firmness. It was the frontrunner in my book, but now I'm leaning towards the P10 especially since the 2018 models are on sale now (again, not locally). Even the tech there said he's go with the VP9 because of "overall build quality" yet when I said the trigger felt like -CENSORED--CENSORED--CENSORED--CENSORED- he said "well everyone likes different triggers" which to me was like a "well guns do shoot bullets" dumb answer.
 
The reality is trigger feel is subjective. That doesn't mean you can't have preferences, but it doesn't mean everyone will agree with yours.

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To be fair, some of the early VP9's did have triggers that weren't the greatest. It's possible that the one you felt could be one of those.

I actually have a pretty infamous thread over on HKPRO that I started nearly 4 years ago about how I resolved a pretty horrendous wall on my first VP9's trigger. Even Lobos triggers links to that thread on their sales page for their aftermarket trigger. Not sure about linking to other forums here, but you can search Google for "hkpro uncle malice vp9 trigger" and it will def be the top result.

I *think* HK changed the disconnector design after that, because my second VP9 had a really good trigger out of the box, and so does my VP9 SK. I will say that I consider the VP9 to definitely have one of the best out of box triggers on the market. My personal top 3 are the PPQ, VP9, and P-10 C for out of box triggers. The break and reset on the PPQ is super clean, but the take-up is pretty notchy and stagey. The VP9 take up is pretty smooth and has just a little bit of roll/creep to the break. The P-10 trigger has an extremely smooth take up to the wall then a really smooth break through the wall, though it does have some creep as you break through it.

I think if I could have my ideal, perfect trigger, I would want the smooth take-up of the P-10C with the ultra-crisp break of the PPQ. The PPQ take-up really annoys me... I don't know how they perfected the break and reset but left the take-up so crunchy. Basically, what I'm saying is that my ideal, perfect trigger is really a complete Apex Tactical kit on an M&P, which I have and love.

But if you want a VP9, I would probably shoot for a new one to know you're getting the latest and greatest.
 
While I tend to like triggers that break a bit farther forward, an M&P with an Apex kit is a very nice striker fired trigger. If the goal is to have a stock trigger that is, "Wow!", by comparison, imo idk if you'll find that. I think you'll find a number of very nice triggers, but I have yet to own a striker fired pistol where the stock trigger blew me away, and I've had basically all of them at this point. Ymmv.

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I love me some Walther PPQ! I have a Q5 Match and the .22 variant -- the trigger is even good in that one! Although, the PPQ Subcompact I tried just didn't impress me, and I don't know why -- maybe the PPQ just wasn't meant to be such a stubby, chunky little gun :)
 
Picked up my P10C today. Ordered on Monday, delivered yesterday, and brought it home today. Haven't shot yet (and I'll probably play with it manually racking slide a few hundred times before the range) but the trigger just as is...wow.

It's no Apex in terms of pretravel, but the break and reset are legit. I know HBI makes a drop in trigger to take care of pretravel, but honestly I won't decide that until a few hundred rounds go through it. Feels nice though, very natural grip. Now I just need to buy a night sight and of course sling some lead through it.
 
thoughts?
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mendozer said:
So I was set on finally getting a Glock 19 gen 5 these last few weeks until I came across range and video reviews (granted form 2017 and 18) for all the striker 9s that were made for the Army competition. I'm honestly shocked at how poorly Glock did
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Look harder. It did not do poorly.

I've been thinking very closely about the CZ P10C or the Beretta APX. I was thinking VP9 but I've seen some inconsistency issues online plus the added cost doesn't really negate the fact that you'll be doing trigger work to it.

Seems like the CZ hit the ball out of the park with the trigger and ergonomics, plus the precise shooting. I've read some inconsistencies as well,
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In thei context, what do you mean by "inconsistencies"


Then Beretta crept under the radar and I have yet to see a bad review on it. Not too many good ones, just based on sample size, but not one was bad.

No one locally has both for rental (heck alone one of them).
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But I betcha they do have Glocks, right?

. but I've also seen the aftermarket respond with upgrades for the striker, springs, triggers, etc.

I have a good online place for a deal, and I'm leaning towards CZ just from initial response and aftermarket parts. Beretta doesn't make crap, but if I want to change something, I feel like I'd be waiting forever for parts.
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My recommendation, buy an unmodified Glock 19, of whatever generation you wish, a pile of magazines, a decent holster, and a case of 9mm FMJ ammo. Learn to shoot that gun. Make no modifications of any sort until at least that thousand rounds is expended through that gun.
 
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Lee- Umm, he already bought the CZ.

In thei context, what do you mean by "inconsistencies"
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I don't know what you're precisely looking for, but there have been some boo-boo's and growing pains for the P10. Striker plate falling out, Clip release and slide release too stiff to operate, firing pin channel liner, or something in the slide rotating, may be others. It's discussed fairly well at length at The Original CZ Forum. It's had growing pains, but I still wouldn't trade my early one for anything. One of these days I'd like to pick up a most recent made P10, but I'm in no hurry. And I'm not bashing your Glock- I have one.
 
The inconsistencies I mention are exactly what he said. Stiff release, rotating striker pin, back plate falling out, etc. From my research much of this was fixed by serial number 300xxxish. Or in mid 2018. Mine is 721XXX and it has all the new features. It has the 3:00 milled slot int he slide, striker cannot rotate, back plate is stiff in there, slide release is a little stiff but it's also brand new so not much worse than my broken in M&P. Mag release isn't super loose, but also isn't very stiff either. They worked it out.
 
My recommendation, buy an unmodified Glock 19, of whatever generation you wish, a pile of magazines, a decent holster, and a case of 9mm FMJ ammo. Learn to shoot that gun. Make no modifications of any sort until at least that thousand rounds is expended through that gun.
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Reality,what a concept..:)
 
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