street purchase

I suppose it's all in what you WANT to see or what your mind/imagination has constructed from the small bits of evidence here. Original post:
i live in cleveland OH .
i went to my local walmart today and i met a man i have never seen before.
he was selling 3 used firearms [ glock 30 , fnp-9 , derringer ].
i was interested in the glock 30 , it was slightly used , looked good and the was selling it for $420.
i wanted to buy it but i dont know if buying it would be illegal .
am i supposed to register the firearm with NICS or with OH state ?
was the man selling firearms illegally?
can i go to jail just for purchasing the firearm [assuming the man was an undercover police officer ] ?
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Now it seems to me that those waving a red flag and dialing 911 are seeing some guy in a long coat with no pants on hanging out in back of a rusty, beat-up white van that's loaded with stereo gear, guns, drugs, TVs, jewelry... like a rolling pawn shop of stolen goods.

Of course, there's no evidence (whatsoever) in the original post to support that.

In my mind, I'm seeing an older guy, maybe 50s or 60s who's also at the sporting goods counter at Wal-Mart just hoping he can find one bulk pack of rimfire and who was drawn in to a conversation about guns and shooting with another guy who is discussing the exact same topic... exactly the way we do at gun shows, gun ranges, gun stores... etc.

Of course, there's no evidence (whatsoever) in the original post to support that.

To me, I suppose, every single scenario isn't a psycho murderer/thief/armed robber waiting to slaughter the legions of good innocent citizens. Just on the raw numbers and averages, random guy#1 (the OP in this thread) isn't likely to stumble across that. Because I think that way... I believe it's extremely poor judgement to want to call the cops on him and assume he's of the lowest common denominator.

My point in posting these thoughts is that when you THINK that way, you're thinking the way the liberal anti-gun agenda wants you (and everyone) to think. :eek: Guns are BAD, guns are SCARY, people who offer guns are criminals with bad intentions. :eek:
 
As with so many situations in life, the manner in which I would react to this depends on context and the course of events leading up to the offer to sell.

At one end of the spectrum is a scenario that sends up red flags: I pull into a spot at Wal-Mart, wearing jeans, T-shirt, and my NRA hat. A guy in the next car rolls down his window, does the "felony look" and says, "Hey, man. I've got a couple of guns I need to sell. You interested?" My likely response: "No, no, and I'll be going on my way now, thankyouverymuch."

At the other end of the spectrum is a scenario that wouldn't bother me: I pull into a spot at Wal-Mart, wearing jeans, T-shirt, and my NRA hat. I go in to look for ammo. While browsing the ammo selection, some guy and I start talking abou the ammo shortage and guns and he says, "You know, I haven't been able to find 9mm anywhere. Hell, I've gotten so tired of looking for ammo that I'm just going to sell the dang gun." My likely response: "How much?" or "How much? I've got a buddy who's a police officer who might be interested. You want me to call him?"

I don't know enough about OH laws to know if the guy was selling guns illegally, to be honest. This kind of scenario could work out to be something pretty benign, or something well into felony territory.

kilimanjaro said:
In this state the pawnshops have them checked against the databases.
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Around here, pawn shops (are supposed to) check serial numbers against "Leads OnLine" (I think it's called) to check for stolen merchandise. I think they do that for many kinds of goods.
 
The point was made earlier that $420 was not a great price.....that is, for those of us who can buy the FA legally or legally possess.

However, $420 is very much in line with street value for crime guns like the Glock. If you are a felon or looking for a crime gun that is not traceable, this is how you get them if you cant steal them yourself. It reminds me of those tables at gun shows with signs "Private Sale, No Paperwork, No Background Checks, Cash Only, No Questions".....with prices at or near full retail. I think we all know who the target consumer audience is for these types of transactions. Probably same for "street corner/parking lot sales".

Encouraging these types of "street corner/parking lot" deals by not reporting or patronizing for personal gain, hurts the greater cause of gun rights, sparks crazy new laws and allows FAs to get into hands of those who should not have, thus sparking more additional crazy laws.

Policing ourselves with some common sense can go much further to support the greater case of gun rights than standing on a soap box advocating the questionable "sellers" right to sell in the parking lot.

A bit more than my two cents here, so I will be done now. :D
 
colbad said:
It reminds me of those tables at gun shows with signs "Private Sale, No Paperwork, No Background Checks, Cash Only, No Questions".....with prices at or near full retail.
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Of all the gun shows I've been to, I've never actually seen a sign like that. Have you? (I'm not being snarky here. I'm genuinely curious.) I think I've seen a sign that said "Private Collection," but that was as close as I've seen to the sign you mention.
 
I don't know enough about OH laws to know if the guy was selling guns illegally, to be honest. This kind of scenario could work out to be something pretty benign, or something well into felony territory.
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If both parties are Ohio residents, 21 or over, and neither party has any reason to believe the other party is prohibited... it is indeed 100% within the law.

As for a guy setting up at a gun show with a sign or even simply verbally stating exactly what was said above--

also 100% legal
and not immoral, wrong, dirty, shady or anything of that nature

When we attach these ideas to them when it isn't warranted, it's awfully disappointing to me.

FWIW, many table holders at gun shows in Ohio do place a small sign that says "private collection" because he WANTS people to know exactly what he is doing: he is selling guns in accordance with the law. He is also specifically showing anyone who might be some manner of LEO at any local, state or even Federal level exactly what he is doing -- working within the confines of the law.

Apparently, it's still legal here in Ohio, regardless of what some people think, or wish it might be. :rolleyes:
 
The signs I mentioned mentioned in my previous post were fairly common in Arizona years ago. With the "heat" on gun shows (citing the "gun show loophole"), the promoters (and FFLs at the shows) have taken a strong hand in not allowing and reporting these types of tables. I have not seen them at legit shows for a long time. However, still occasionally come across them from time to time at Swap Meet locations.

As a side, when I would ask the seller about the signs and if they had concern of criminals or minors getting the guns, guess what the response was. "I am not a licensed dealer, I am not legally required to do paperwork, I don't know if someone is a felon and they are my private "collection" so I can legally do what I want with them" (intentionally pretending ignorance). I think that there was also an [anti-gun-control message] that was part of the "in your face" signage.

Ironically some of these "private collection" sellers would show up at every show WITH NEW INVENTORY. I think the FFLs at the shows were the ones who put the most pressure on the promoters to stop that behavior (to my point of self policing).

In some ways its unfortunate that there are few private sellers anymore at most of the Arizona shows because that is often where the unusual stuff and good deals could be made with honest sellers/collectors. I can normally get the same FFL price at the LGS as a gun show plus a military discount without having to pay admission, gas and parking.
 
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people posting signs saying private sale, cash only, and no paper work is totally fine with me.

I know a few people who are 100% honest law abiding citizens that just do not want the government to know what type or how many guns they may have.

They fear possible registration and or confiscation. Many people will go out of their way to find private sales because of this

My point being its not just criminals who seek cash only sales

Some people just like their privacy
 
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I must have mis-read the op. I read that he met someone there. I assumed it was arranged. But if a guy comes up to me at walmart with a trunk load of guns for sale that is a red flag. But meeting in a public place to make a gun deal. That is the only way to do it. As far as recieving stolen goods. If i call and have a serial number checked and it comes up clean i have done my due dilligence and it would take a lot to prove i knew i was getting stolen property.
 
You would be legal to buy in OH, however I'm not so sure I would want to buy from a guy I just met in a parking lot with no previous communications. The guns could be stolen, could have been used to shoot someone, etc. I'd steer clear of any situation like that.
 
Back in the 60s, in Liverpool UK, I worked part time, Thur/Fri/Sat nights as a Bouncer, at the Cavern Club, of Beatle fame.

One night, late, a couple of teenagers, just passing, offered a very small, battery operated radio for sale? Phillips, made in Holland. Larry, a buddy, asked to look at it, it worked, "You stole this, right?" he said.

It was obviously stolen. Larry tried it for toughness, he threw it at the wall across Mathew St.!

Two American Soldiers on leave, from Germany, came by later, saying their car got broken into! One of the stolen items was a Portable Radio! OOPS!
 
i decided to just buy firearms at my favorite gun shop.
even if they cost more , peace of mind is worth the price
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Exactly. If the guns the guy was selling are really great deals, then you probably don't want anything to do with it. If he's just offering them at a "fair" price, then you have to ask yourself: is peace of mind really worth the $30 you might save?
 
What "peace of mind" do you get buying from a dealer-other than he has a storefront? Most dealers have no way of knowing (or finding out) if a gun is stolen. The same Walmart guy could go to any dealer to sell the guns-even if they were stolen. Then you could buy them from the dealer....
If the guy was selling lawn furniture instead of guns would it make a difference to you? Both are legal.
 
few years back a local scumbag I know pulled up where I was working ( running a survey crew on a county back road) hops out and walks over to me carrying a yellow and red ruger box opens it up smileing at me and says $250, in side is a brand spanking new .44 mag blackhawk, I know the dude is scum, i know it's hot and i have the money in my pocket, broke my heart to send him on his way with that gun but that was just trouble i didn't need,
 
I don't buy guns from guys out on the street I don't know, or fish out of the back of unmarked vans. hbhobby I have some experience running 29s on guns in Arizona. We do not do it without the actual firearm in hand. Not over the phone, etc. If someone in LE with access to NCIC is running guns for you that they don't don't physically have possession of, over the phone, somebody in LE is doing something they should not be doing...
 
Bill DeShivs said:
What "peace of mind" do you get buying from a dealer-other than he has a storefront? Most dealers have no way of knowing (or finding out) if a gun is stolen. The same Walmart guy could go to any dealer to sell the guns-even if they were stolen. Then you could buy them from the dealer....
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Not certain, but I would think that buying from a regular FFL with a storefront would at least protect you from a "receiving stolen goods" charge if the gun is later found to have been stolen. You would most likely lose the gun without compensation, but you wouldn't go to prison.
 
The point was made earlier that $420 was not a great price.....that is, for those of us who can buy the FA legally or legally possess.

However, $420 is very much in line with street value for crime guns like the Glock. If you are a felon or looking for a crime gun that is not traceable, this is how you get them if you cant steal them yourself. It reminds me of those tables at gun shows with signs "Private Sale, No Paperwork, No Background Checks, Cash Only, No Questions".....with prices at or near full retail. I think we all know who the target consumer audience is for these types of transactions. Probably same for "street corner/parking lot sales".

Encouraging these types of "street corner/parking lot" deals by not reporting or patronizing for personal gain, hurts the greater cause of gun rights, sparks crazy new laws and allows FAs to get into hands of those who should not have, thus sparking more additional crazy laws.

Policing ourselves with some common sense can go much further to support the greater case of gun rights than standing on a soap box advocating the questionable "sellers" right to sell in the parking lot.
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$420 is actually a decent price for a Glock, depending on the condition and age.

And what exactly makes a firearm a "crime gun"?? I'm sure Glock's are not the only guns stolen or used in crimes...

The sale should not only focus on the firearm, but the situation surrounding the sale. If private sales are legal in your state like it is in FL and many others, as long as both parties are non-prohibited persons and the firearm is not stolen, there is no issue. Of course, if it looks suspicious then just pass.

It is up to the individual to discern whether the situation looks suspicious or not. If the seller can produce proper ID i.e. CCW and DL, would agree to sign a bill of sale, and the firearm checks out not stolen, then its a non-issue regardless if you are buying/selling at a Walmart parking lot or Gunshow.


There are websites you can check online if the firearm is stolen. You can enter the gun's serial# on your smart phone to be sure if its not stolen.
Here's the one that we use in my state:
http://pas.fdle.state.fl.us/pas/item/displayGunSearch.a

I have used the website above when I've bought and sold firearms privately.
 
"Crime Gun" as used by me in your quote is a firearm that was purchased with the intent of using it in a crime...ie murder, armed robbery etc. The point does not focus on Glocks but any gun deals out of the trunk type of deal.
 
If you have the ability to buy from a dealer with blue gun status, IE G license.

$420 is not such a deal. Plus you get 3 magazines.
 
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