Strange situation from the news

As I said over at THR, if the cat was stolen for them to train their dogs, if they're ever caught, they should be put into a pen to play with the friendly tigers for a few hours.

And the tigers should not have been fed for awhile.
 
<<Think about it. I'm in the store. I see one perp brandish, then you (another perp to me) draw a gun. I shoot you, because you are the more immediate threat, then move to him.....smart? Don't think so.....>>

So we've all become completely incapable of protecting ourselved from crime BECAUSE we carry a gun?

Incidentally, private citizens do have the power of arrest... you just have to be willing to use it.

Also, in the case mentioned above, I didn't kill him because he was stealing a cat, I killed him because he threatened me with a weapon.
 
haha I will be the first to say it, I guess. Id offer then $10 for taking the pesky little chinese food off my hands for me. I hate cats, and it would definitly be absolutly no loss at all if someone were to steal one while I was there. Id wave and wish him a happy voyage.
 
Rioshooter said:
NOT in Texas. According to the Texas penal code a CHL has the right to defend a third person.
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Same thing in NC...

I'm also a displaced Texan, but we have a House there in San Antonio :D

We'll be back one day!!!!!
 
tanksoldier wrote:

Also, in the case mentioned above, I didn't kill him because he was stealing a cat, I killed him because he threatened me with a weapon.
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Actually, he didn't physically threaten anyone specifically with the weapon if he just brandished it. Brandishing does not count as putting you in immenent danger. Now if he makes a move towards it, different story.

And citizens arrest is very far removed from shooting someone who you see commiting a crime. There are all sorts of circumstances that you can't forsee, and you open a huge can of worms for yourself if you go around acting like a LEO...or the punisher. If you feel so strongly about stopping crime, get yourself a real badge.........or a cape.....:rolleyes:
 
Derius_T said:
Actually, he didn't physically threaten anyone specifically with the weapon if he just brandished it.
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Just how does one interpret his actions? Was his belly too hot? Was he showing off his gun? Or was he saying, "I'll shoot you if you interfere!"? I think it was "C." He's got a gun= ability. He's within range = opportunity. He's (implicitly) threatened you with the gun = jeopardy. While it may not be wise to engage him, it's certainly legally defensible. It isn't about the cat, it's about the lethal threat he presents. You are not obligated to wait until he's shooting, or until he's aiming the gun, or until he has the gun in hand, or even until he's reaching for the gun. He already poses an immediate lethal threat.
 
Just brandishing is not grounds to drawn and shoot the man dead. You would end up in prison. No sense arguing the matter, just hope you don't act so foolishly if it happens to you....
 
Just brandishing is not grounds to drawn and shoot the man dead. You would end up in prison. No sense arguing the matter, just hope you don't act so foolishly if it happens to you.
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Brandishing a gun while committing a crime implies the threat of using that gun in a deadly manner while in the commission of the crime.
Couple that with one putting his finger to his mouth a reasonable person could reasonably conclude that a threat of deadly force if the person did not keep quiet was made

You are allowed as a citizen to stop any crime that you witness in progress you are also allowed to use deadly force against the threat of deadly force

I love living in Florida, no reason to over analyze deadly threats
 
Try to take my cat at gunpoint, and you are gonna get 2 to the chest and 1 to the head....then the real indignity begins as my cat pisses on your rotting corpse.

If a reasonable person in the same situation could infer that the bad guy had Opportunity, Ability and Intent to cause death or serious bodily harm during the commission of a crime, force, including deadly force, is permissible.

Florida is a great State, unless you are intent on being a criminal....life expectancy isnt' so good after 10/01/05
 
Derius_T said:
Just brandishing is not grounds to drawn and shoot the man dead.
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That is correct. However, the guy did not "just" brandish the weapon.
There are 3 elements that you must be able show to demonstrate that someone poses an immediate threat of grave bodily injury.
Ability- He has to have the means.
Opportunity- He has to be a position to use his means. A guy with a club threatening you from 40 yards away has the ability, but not the opportunity.
Jeopardy- He must, by his words or actions, demonstrate that he intends to cause you immediate injury. A guy simply walking out of a sporting goods store carrying a bat has Ability and Opportunity, but demonstrates no Jeopardy.
Which of these 3 elements do you believe has not been satisfied by the robber's actions?
 
I don't see ANY jury in the word letting you go free for killing a man who was stealing a cat.....thats just stupid....
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This something that sets me off.
Nobody is going to shoot someone for stealing a cat up for adoption. It's a different story when you shoot someone for committing a violent felony with implied use of deadly force, even if the crime just happens to be stealing a cat
 
Like it's been said previous, the item of value (cat) has nothing to do with this. What if it had been a man brandishing the same way and telling you nothing more than to get out of your car? Fact is, you have no way of knowing what he wants when he shows the weapon, cat and cash register and no witnesses?
Personally I'd do my best to prepare for the worst. If I was just walking in I'd back my way out of the store and call for help. If I was unable to get to a door I may very likely pull and be ready especially if I had a clear target and no one could see the weapon in my hand..

Edicut
 
On January 1, 2006, at about 5:00 p.m. the two suspects walked into the Petco Store in the 1100 block of N. Buckner Blvd.

They walked to a cage housing animals up for adoption and selected a cat. A clerk walked over to assist the two and the older suspect raised his shirt displaying a handgun.

The second suspect motioned for the clerk to be quiet and the two then walked out of the store with the cat and fled in an unknown direction.
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I understand that would make one nervous, and would be quite startling. But the fact is, as far as the limited information we have, they calmly walked over, got a cat, when the guy approached asking if he could help or whatever, the guy lifted his shirt, showing a firearm, the other guy motioned for quiet, and they turned and walked out of the store.

It doesn't say they threatened anyone, or even spoke to the man, and made no threatening moves. He just said basically, I got a gun, be quiet, I REALLY want this cat okay?

Sure it would be nerve racking, but was he in imminent danger of death? Obviously not. Would it have helped to "show him yours" and escalate an otherwise non lethal situation into a lethal one? Causing who knows what to do down? Sometimes you have to use your judgement. Its not always necessary to jerk that pistol and go to work gunslinger.....:rolleyes:
 
Derius_T-

So if someone approaches me on the street, says "Give it up, man" and lifts his shirt, displaying a gun, that isn't a threat to shoot me if I don't comply, and he isn't committing armed robbery?
Are you suggesting that in such a case, before I can justify the use of deadly force to defend myself I must wait for him to take some further action?
If so, where do you draw the line, what's your "GO" signal? When he reaches for the gun? When he grips it? When he pulls it out of his pants? After all, so far he's merely "brandished" the weapon. Do you wait until he points it in your general direction, until he aims it at you, until he fires it, or until he shoots you? Where is your line?
I am not questioning whether or not it would have been a good idea to draw on the armed cat thief; I'm questioning whether or not it is legally justified. I say it is, you seem to be saying it isn't. If it isn't, I'd like to know where you draw the line.
 
I am not questioning whether or not it would have been a good idea to draw on the armed cat thief; I'm questioning whether or not it is legally justified. I say it is, you seem to be saying it isn't. If it isn't, I'd like to know where you draw the line.
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It is legally justified. Armed robbery is just that: Armed robbery. There is no stipulation that the weapon be deployed. If you are armed when you commit a robbery, you've committed armed robbery... period. You can be charged with such even if the weapon is a toy.

No reasonable and prudent person would expect you to wait for a suspect to draw, resulting in an old West gunfight. His intent to use it is implied, the moment he displays it in the commission of a crime.

If you want to dig through the law books (I don't), there is substantial case law supporting this.
 
Derius T: In my state, pistol license holders may interfere and use deadly force, to stop rape, sodomy, arson, robbery, burglary, physical violence to license holder or another person, among others. This is a case of armed robbery and would meet the defense of justification criteria. So, in my stete at least, the license is not specifically for self defense.
 
I understand what you all are trying to say. That just the brandishing alone contitutes a threat. I agree. But the fact is that he turned and walked away. No one got hurt. If you would have drawn on him, maybe you or some innocent kid looking at bunny rabbits with his mom dies. All I'm saying is sometimes a gut check is required to see if you honestly believe the man is going to use this weapon, or if its just bluster to get out without a confrontation. You escallate (sp?) what would have otherwise been non-lethal, and you can be held responsible It has happened. You just have to use your head and instincts and feel out the situation.
 
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