strange 44spl testing results....

CAUTION: The following post (or a page linked to) includes or discusses loading data not covered by currently published sources of tested data for this cartridge (QuickLOAD or Gordon's Reloading Tool data is not professionally tested). USE AT YOUR OWN RISK. Neither the writer, The Firing Line, nor the staff of TFL assumes any liability for any damage or injury resulting from the use of this information.

I ran QUickload with the option set for finding loads that would get 1050 fps. You did not list OAL, so I left this value at the program default


Code: 
Cartridge          : .44 S&W Special (SAAMI)
Bullet             : .430, 240, Hornady HP/XTP 44200
Useable Case Capaci: 27.101 grain H2O = 1.760 cm³
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 1.615 inch = 41.02 mm
Barrel Length      : 20.0 inch = 508.0 mm

Predicted Data for Indicated Charges of the Following Powders.
Matching Muzzle Velocity: 1000 fps or 304 m/s
These calculations refer to your specified settings in QuickLOAD 'Cartridge Dimensions' window.
C A U T I O N : any load listed can result in a powder charge that falls below minimum suggested
loads or exceeds maximum suggested loads as presented in current handloading manuals. Understand
that all of the listed powders can be unsuitable for the given combination of cartridge, bullet
and gun. Actual load order can vary, depending upon lot-to-lot powder and component variations.
USE ONLY FOR COMPARISON !

13 loads produced a Loading Ratio below user-defined minimum of 33%. These powders have been skipped.
Powder type          Filling/Loading Ratio  Charge    Charge   Vel. Prop.Burnt P max  P muzz  B_Time
                                      %     Grains    Gramm   fps     %       psi     psi    ms
---------------------------------  -----------------------------------------------------------------
Accurate 4100                       50.5     13.0     0.84    1050    69.1     8920    1031   2.357
Alliant HERCO                       43.5      6.8     0.44    1050   100.0    10463     786   2.274
Maxam CSB 4                         42.5      6.0     0.39    1050   100.0    15555     577   2.078  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Maxam CSB 3                         42.9      6.2     0.40    1050   100.0    14621     589   2.099  ! Near Maximum !
Maxam CSB 5                         43.2      5.9     0.38    1050   100.0    18048     551   2.020  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Accurate No.9                       41.7     11.0     0.72    1050    76.9     9369     993   2.299
Lovex D037.2 Heavy Pistol           41.2     11.0     0.72    1050    76.9     9369     993   2.299
Winchester 231                      34.2      6.5     0.42    1050   100.0    13659     616   2.130  ! Near Maximum !
Maxam CSB 2                         42.0      6.4     0.41    1050   100.0    13497     606   2.137  ! Near Maximum !
Norma R1                            49.0      6.2     0.40    1050   100.0    18283     559   2.049  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Vihtavuori N340                     40.0      6.6     0.43    1050   100.0    11784     684   2.184
Maxam CSB 1                         45.1      6.6     0.43    1050   100.0    13604     604   2.123  ! Near Maximum !
Lovex S030                          37.7      6.6     0.43    1050   100.0    12138     670   2.187
Vihtavuori N310                     39.2      5.7     0.37    1050   100.0    19798     534   2.002  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Alliant 2400                        46.8     11.1     0.72    1050    72.9     9218    1024   2.380
Vihtavuori N320                     41.1      6.0     0.39    1050   100.0    15147     579   2.090  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Vihtavuori N330                     38.9      6.3     0.41    1050   100.0    12768     627   2.144
Lovex S020                          37.6      6.5     0.42    1050   100.0    12084     665   2.174
Lovex S035                          44.7      6.9     0.45    1050   100.0    11403     707   2.198
Hodgdon H4227                       64.3     14.7     0.95    1050    57.8     9042     984   2.308
Vihtavuori 3N37                     38.9      7.5     0.49    1050    99.2    10379     814   2.236
Alliant POWER PISTOL                36.4      7.2     0.47    1050    92.8     9642     920   2.321
Vihtavuori N350                     40.7      7.4     0.48    1050    99.4    10525     798   2.223
IMR 4227                            63.4     14.5     0.94    1050    58.3     9298     977   2.298
Accurate No.2                       39.0      6.5     0.42    1050   100.0    11480     718   2.225
Lovex S040                          51.0     11.4     0.74    1050    73.4     9279     988   2.284
Lovex D063                          56.2     14.7     0.95    1050    56.4     9444     968   2.290
Ramshot Enforcer                    47.4     12.1     0.78    1050    73.3     8494    1055   2.388
Lovex D060                          58.0     13.6     0.88    1050    57.8     9761    1019   2.330
Accurate 5744                       56.7     13.6     0.88    1050    57.8     9761    1019   2.330
Vihtavuori N105 *C                  47.0      9.2     0.60    1050    90.3     8326     985   2.329
Lovex D037.1                        36.3      9.8     0.63    1050    83.3     9322     984   2.314
Accurate No.7                       36.6      9.8     0.63    1050    83.3     9322     984   2.314
Alliant BLUE DOT                    47.3      9.6     0.62    1050    82.6     9440     980   2.319
Vihtavuori 3N38                     45.2      9.2     0.60    1050    88.0     9716     933   2.297
Vihtavuori N32C Tin Star            63.1      7.9     0.51    1050   100.0    18471     539   2.038  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Alliant BULLSEYE                    34.1      5.6     0.37    1050   100.0    11386     706   2.211
IMR TrailBoss                       93.9      7.9     0.51    1050   100.0    17116     554   2.057  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Vihtavuori N110 *C                  59.3     12.6     0.81    1050    71.2     8241    1069   2.378
Lovex S011                          36.3      6.2     0.40    1050   100.0    14261     600   2.118  ! Near Maximum !
Accurate Solo 1250                  42.6      6.4     0.41    1050   100.0    13343     617   2.128  ! Near Maximum !

I also ran a Power Pistol table

Code: 
Cartridge          : .44 S&W Special (SAAMI)
Bullet             : .430, 240, Hornady HP/XTP 44200
Useable Case Capaci: 27.101 grain H2O = 1.760 cm³
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 1.615 inch = 41.02 mm
Barrel Length      : 20.0 inch = 508.0 mm
Powder             : Alliant POWER PISTOL

Step    Fill. Charge   Vel.  Energy   Pmax   Pmuz  Prop.Burnt B_Time
 %       %    Grains   fps   ft.lbs    psi    psi      %        ms

-28.6   25     5.00    784     327    5724    582     80.6    3.109
-25.7   26     5.20    809     349    6005    612     82.0    3.014
-22.9   27     5.40    834     371    6301    643     83.3    2.926
-20.0   28     5.60    859     393    6611    674     84.6    2.843
-17.1   29     5.80    884     416    6936    705     85.8    2.765
-14.3   30     6.00    908     439    7274    736     86.9    2.691
-11.4   31     6.20    932     463    7627    767     88.0    2.622
-08.6   32     6.40    956     487    7993    797     89.1    2.557
-05.7   33     6.60    979     511    8373    828     90.1    2.495
-02.9   34     6.80   1002     535    8768    858     91.0    2.436
+00.0   35     7.00   1025     560    9176    888     91.9    2.380
+02.9   36     7.20   1048     585    9598    917     92.7    2.326
+05.7   37     7.40   1070     610   10034    946     93.5    2.276
+08.6   38     7.60   1092     636   10484    975     94.2    2.227
+11.4   39     7.80   1114     661   10948   1003     94.9    2.181
+14.3   40     8.00   1136     687   11427   1031     95.5    2.137

Results caused by ± 10% powder lot-to-lot burning rate variation using nominal charge
Data for burning rate increased by 10% relative to nominal value:
+Ba     35     7.00   1075     615   10352    913     96.8    2.212
Data for burning rate decreased by 10% relative to nominal value:
-Ba     35     7.00    966     497    8081    835     84.7    2.521
 
Last edited:
Its a mistake to assume 44 magnum rifles can safely handle more pressure than 44 magnum handguns.

It might vary,case to case, but a SBH,a Raging Bull, a Redhawk,etc may well take more pressure than your lever gun.

In part,there is only so much real estate and steel in a lever action.The tube mag layout and receiver size makes for slim barrel contour and small barrelshank.

In some cases, a sight dovetail is cut across the lever action barrel just about where pressure will peak.

Yes,a good,modern steel 92 clone is pretty strong.

But 454 Casull handguns are built in the same revolvers 44 Magnums are built on.

454 Casull pressures exceed what most lever actions are rated .

I know,there are 454 Casull lever guns. OK.

Convert one of Pancho Villa's carbines or use a toggle link lever action and you may be smiling around gun parts.
 
You posted about the pressure overhead room available, but on rereading I see no allusions to any other consideration. My point was that the powders in the old data may have ceased appearing in 44 Special load manual data for reasons having nothing direct to do with the peak pressures normally seen with them.
Click to expand...
Granted but from 15.5 to 36k psi is a very long haul especially with a powder as forgiving to be used in 9mm Major loads. Also there is plenty of buffer between the two cartridges considering the .12" difference in length cited in Speer with their plated rounds.

Shadow: for #7 it states that at 7.0g the charge is too small and at 12.5 is states I am close to max working pressure at a projected 13704psi
Click to expand...
And with PP you have already admitted to exceeding 44 Sp. pressures or load data.

44 Special has been loaded hot since at least the 1930's. The data is available to guide you towards your velocity goal given careful loading and use in only modern firearms. If you have been in the game as long as you claim you should be able to hit the goal with what you have while preventing someone from using it is some weak top break POS.

As I have said I have at least two documented sources to work from. Yes the powder has been reformulated since then....but if you are using Lee#2 data it is just as old and just a repeat of everyone elses published data. Lymans has lots of loads that are as old or older; just look to see if pressure is even listed OR listed in CUP. That is the tell.

I ran the H110 in the simulation as well as the #7 with both powders it gave me a warning "Low burn rate! inconsistent combustion and increased error rate of simulation very likely."
Click to expand...

And that is why we test it to prove or disprove the efficacy of the data and whether it meets our goals.
 
Last edited:
HiBC said:
Its a mistake to assume 44 magnum rifles can safely handle more pressure than 44 magnum handguns.

It might vary,case to case, but a SBH,a Raging Bull, a Redhawk,etc may well take more pressure than your lever gun.

In part,there is only so much real estate and steel in a lever action.The tube mag layout and receiver size makes for slim barrel contour and small barrelshank.

In some cases, a sight dovetail is cut across the lever action barrel just about where pressure will peak.

Yes,a good,modern steel 92 clone is pretty strong.

But 454 Casull handguns are built in the same revolvers 44 Magnums are built on.

454 Casull pressures exceed what most lever actions are rated .

I know,there are 454 Casull lever guns. OK.

Convert one of Pancho Villa's carbines or use a toggle link lever action and you may be smiling around gun parts.
Click to expand...
Just to clarify, when referencing pressure, I was talking 44spl pressures vs 44mag pressures. Not pressures in a lever guns vs revolver.

I was also hoping to see some better velocities in rifles vs pistol, but pressures were strictly related to pushing 44spl above 44spl levels in a 44mag chamber.
 
CAUTION: The following post (or a page linked to) includes or discusses loading data not covered by currently published sources of tested data for this cartridge (QuickLOAD or Gordon's Reloading Tool data is not professionally tested). USE AT YOUR OWN RISK. Neither the writer, The Firing Line, nor the staff of TFL assumes any liability for any damage or injury resulting from the use of this information.

Ok, Final load workup is done! Figured I would compile it for a clean read

Henry Big Boy Steel round barrel side gate, 20in barrel in 44mag / 44spl.

Goal was a hunting load that was just subsonic.

Starline 44spl brass
Hornady 240g XTP
Power Pistol Powder
CCI # 300 Small Pistol Primers
Listed Start of 6.6g
Listed max of 7.6g

Fired 5 rounds at each charge weight

6.6, avg 801, sd 28.38, es 75, hi 846, low 771
7.1, avg 867, sd 38.68, es 94, hi 902, low 808
7.6, avg 939, sd 31.44, es 73, hi 95, low 902
Going above max
8.1, avg 1034, sd 15.37, es 36, hi 1057, low 1021
8.2, avg 1055, sd 51.90, es 132, hi 1101, low 969
8.3, avg 1063, sd 43.67, es 107, hi 1101, low 994
8.4, avg 1095, sd 10.45, es 28, hi 1107, low 1079
8.5, avg 1114, sd 17.71, es 38, hi 1134, low 1086


Not sure what happened in the 8.2 and 8.3 loads with the HIGH es and sd. Same lot of primers, same container of powder. Charges were all weighed, not thrown.
 
Your high velocities track fairly well with the load level changes. The lows may just be where the primer happened to unseat the bullet a little further or the powder was thrown forward in the case (or both).
 
Interesting, the low shot was also the first shot from each string for 8.2 or 8.3. I was thinking possibly chronograph error, not straight over, or due to moving clouds.

Was planning to test 8.1, 8.2. 8.3 for accuracy, then fire 15 of that load over the chronograph to get a final velocity for the load.
 
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