I think BillCa hit the nail right on the head there the gun shop is at fault and no one really brought it up so I will, the store that sold the weapon is the position to lose there FFL and probably face some kind of fine or prosecution if the BATF catches wind of this transaction. So what is really happening here is a basic scenario of trying to cover there rears. If your wife can get a State ID just go back in and have them fix the paperwork. Would be the easiest way to do it really instead of having to go thru Military Legal ultimately save you a bunch of worrying and getting tangled up with a bunch of legalities.
Store wants me to return gun.....advise?
- Thread starter JerryS1
- Start date
If one buys stolen merchandise inadvertantly, you don't go to jail, but you do lose your purchase. I'd suggest that the same principle might apply here. Lack of knowledge about a law is not much of a legal defense.
Why not just call the local BATF office and ask them how your dependant spouse can buy a firearm? If the answer is favorable, tell them why you're calling and have them fix it. If not, you fix it.
I've never encountered this problem because my (military dependant) wife works, and had to become a legal resident of the states we've lived in. But it does seem absurd that someone could be actually domeciled somewhere and not be able to buy a gun.
Why not just call the local BATF office and ask them how your dependant spouse can buy a firearm? If the answer is favorable, tell them why you're calling and have them fix it. If not, you fix it.
I've never encountered this problem because my (military dependant) wife works, and had to become a legal resident of the states we've lived in. But it does seem absurd that someone could be actually domeciled somewhere and not be able to buy a gun.
paratrooper
New member
I would ask for the name of the "FBI" agent that triggered this . Should be a simple thing to give you a name . Tell them that your Base JAG wants to discuss it with him/her one on one to clear this up . If there's no agent , there's no audit . If there's no audit , there's no problem . After they admit to lying then go back and milk it for all you can . The gift certificate idea is a goodie . By the way . I seem to remember that CA has 3 criteria to determine residency . Sign a lease , accept full time work or put children in school . Maybe there's a qualifier in there for her .
Samuel2001
New member
Call your local BATF field office and ask to speak to the officer incharge, tell that person your dillema. Usually that person will ask for your Phone Number and name and will return your call as soon as they find your answer. Odds are you didn't break any laws, and the real Idjits here are the guys at the store.
Also the FBI has nothing to do with auditing FFL's, thats the job of the BATF or the State Dept. of Justice/Attorney Generals Office. Even when used in a crime the FBI goes to the BATF to retreive info from an FFL.
Good luck!!
Also the FBI has nothing to do with auditing FFL's, thats the job of the BATF or the State Dept. of Justice/Attorney Generals Office. Even when used in a crime the FBI goes to the BATF to retreive info from an FFL.
Good luck!!
Double Naught Spy
New member
They can ask for anything they want, but that does not mean it has to be provided.
Of course if the gun turns out to be illegally purchased (due to no fault of yours), then you may lose it to BATF and you won't get your money back, chances are.
"...the store that sold the weapon is the position to lose there FFL and probably face some kind of fine or prosecution if the BATF catches wind of this transaction."
How could BATF find out about it? It's not like someone got onto the internet and told the whole story to the entire world.
Tim
How could BATF find out about it? It's not like someone got onto the internet and told the whole story to the entire world.
Tim
Hello JerryS1,
Don't get cute with the straw-man purchase, soldier. Both Florida and Federal law requires intent to be the ultimate owner of the handgun at the time of purchase. The state of mind called intent, can be proved by documentary evidence and actions, both before and after the fact. You would be taking a big chance now to try and do something like that. And it's not actually necessary.
Both Federal and Florida law recognize the possibility of double residence. The most glaring example is an out-of-state college student. Your wife's situation discloses that she is a resident of the state of Florida. Florida recognizes many different ways of establishing residency. Voter registration, applying for homestead exemption, enrolling kids in school, etc. Being the wife of a serviceman stationed in Florida can certainly attain that purpose.
I am assuming that therein lies the main issue with regard to the situation. I am not examining any other possible disqualification.
If you are stationed in Tampa, let me know. I can probably solve the problem. Free of charge. If stationed elsewhere, contact the nearest JAG. I'm certain they will be happy to lend a hand.
The only reason I could think that the FBI would be presently involved is that
Academy has a big situation undergoing and your wife's case is not the only one. As said before, BATFE is the one with the authority to conduct audits. Unless the matter has gone beyond that stage.
Don't get cute with the straw-man purchase, soldier. Both Florida and Federal law requires intent to be the ultimate owner of the handgun at the time of purchase. The state of mind called intent, can be proved by documentary evidence and actions, both before and after the fact. You would be taking a big chance now to try and do something like that. And it's not actually necessary.
Both Federal and Florida law recognize the possibility of double residence. The most glaring example is an out-of-state college student. Your wife's situation discloses that she is a resident of the state of Florida. Florida recognizes many different ways of establishing residency. Voter registration, applying for homestead exemption, enrolling kids in school, etc. Being the wife of a serviceman stationed in Florida can certainly attain that purpose.
I am assuming that therein lies the main issue with regard to the situation. I am not examining any other possible disqualification.
If you are stationed in Tampa, let me know. I can probably solve the problem. Free of charge. If stationed elsewhere, contact the nearest JAG. I'm certain they will be happy to lend a hand.
The only reason I could think that the FBI would be presently involved is that
Academy has a big situation undergoing and your wife's case is not the only one. As said before, BATFE is the one with the authority to conduct audits. Unless the matter has gone beyond that stage.
Thanks Jehzsa and everyone,
I appreciate all the solid advice. I didn't have a chance to talk to the district manager of the store last night (had to go pick up a bad guy). Will talk to him tonight though.
I'm leaning toward returning the gun and getting my money back, and maybe just buy it someplace else. They don't sell used guns (and I've fired it) so I'm not sure they will give me the option of refunding my money without a big legal hassle. Will find out more tonight.
Thanks again for your time,
Jerry
I appreciate all the solid advice. I didn't have a chance to talk to the district manager of the store last night (had to go pick up a bad guy). Will talk to him tonight though.
I'm leaning toward returning the gun and getting my money back, and maybe just buy it someplace else. They don't sell used guns (and I've fired it) so I'm not sure they will give me the option of refunding my money without a big legal hassle. Will find out more tonight.
Thanks again for your time,
Jerry
Re the actual purchase/transfder of this pistol, I cannot say who is right or wrong, however the more one thinks about it, the worse it smells.
What does kind of stand out here is what appears to be the ongoing corruption of drivers licenses, just like the corruption of those Social Security Numbers.
Remember that scene in Treasure of The Sierra Madre, where at the beginning of the train robbery, the bandits pretended to be "Federales". The American, I think it was the character played by Humphery Bogart asked to see their badges. Annoyed at this request, the bandit replied, just prior to openning fire, We aint got no badges. We don need no stinking badges"
What does kind of stand out here is what appears to be the ongoing corruption of drivers licenses, just like the corruption of those Social Security Numbers.
Remember that scene in Treasure of The Sierra Madre, where at the beginning of the train robbery, the bandits pretended to be "Federales". The American, I think it was the character played by Humphery Bogart asked to see their badges. Annoyed at this request, the bandit replied, just prior to openning fire, We aint got no badges. We don need no stinking badges"
Hello JerryS1,
It wasn't your or your wife's mistake. They have to refund every single penny you/your wife paid. Even if the gun was fired. And btw, the idea proposed by someone of a gift certificate is a solid, good business-judgment decision. That's the least they could do. For all the trouble.
Please do let us know how it turns out, soldier. Take care, be safe, and keep your head down
.
It wasn't your or your wife's mistake. They have to refund every single penny you/your wife paid. Even if the gun was fired. And btw, the idea proposed by someone of a gift certificate is a solid, good business-judgment decision. That's the least they could do. For all the trouble.
Please do let us know how it turns out, soldier. Take care, be safe, and keep your head down
.Spoke with the District Manager tonight. Thanks to everyone here for preparing me for anything he might say. He admitted that he mis-spoke to my wife and it was the BATF not the FBI that was looking over the records.
He offered to do anything we wanted to make it right......full refund, or if we wanted to re-purchase it they would give a $50 store credit for the trouble of having to go through another 3 day wait.
My wife is really insistent on having the gun in her name.....it's her first so I can understand. She's going down to get a Florida drivers license tomorrow and we'll return the gun tomorrow night. This way at least we avoid any misinterpretation of it being a straw purchase (even though the manager insists that he spoke to the BATF about it and we would be fine).
Again, Thanks so much for all your professional/expert advise!
Respectfully,
Jerry
He offered to do anything we wanted to make it right......full refund, or if we wanted to re-purchase it they would give a $50 store credit for the trouble of having to go through another 3 day wait.
My wife is really insistent on having the gun in her name.....it's her first so I can understand. She's going down to get a Florida drivers license tomorrow and we'll return the gun tomorrow night. This way at least we avoid any misinterpretation of it being a straw purchase (even though the manager insists that he spoke to the BATF about it and we would be fine).
Again, Thanks so much for all your professional/expert advise!
Respectfully,
Jerry
While your wife may not be charged with any crime, if the BATF believes the firearm was purchased illegally, they most certainly will sieze it without any compensation.
I know someone who purchased a rifle from a store a few years back. Turns out the store's FFL was suspended/revoked. While the purchasers from the store were not charged, all their firearms were siezed. And there was nothing they could do about it...
I know someone who purchased a rifle from a store a few years back. Turns out the store's FFL was suspended/revoked. While the purchasers from the store were not charged, all their firearms were siezed. And there was nothing they could do about it...
Jerry: Thats the best deal. Since the manager came clean about the whole deal, (sort of) I'd let your wife get her ID, take the offered $50 gift, and return the gun. Wait the 3 days, and let her get it in her name.
($50 can buy a decent amount of ammo)
BTW: Is the 3 day wait 'because' you are out of staters? We have no such waiting period in OHIO. I can walk in, buy handgun, and walk out immediately. Everything is instant......computer stuff......
($50 can buy a decent amount of ammo)
BTW: Is the 3 day wait 'because' you are out of staters? We have no such waiting period in OHIO. I can walk in, buy handgun, and walk out immediately. Everything is instant......computer stuff......