Store wants me to return gun.....advise?

J

JerryS1

New member
This is weird. Bought a Bersa 380 from Academy about a week ago. It's a great gun. My wife wanted to buy it (in her name since she hasn't purchased one before). They called my wife today and said they need her to return it because they failed an audit.

We are a military family, I can buy a gun in Florida without a Florida license because I'm stationed here....(Academy thought this rule applied to my wife also) but it doesn't. So they want us to return it and have me purchase it (of course we'll have to wait another 3 days).

I just don't understand why their audit is my problem, I offered to buy it in the first place but they insisted it wasn't a problem. I'm thinking about returning it and telling them to give me a refund......they don't sell used guns (I've already fired it), and it's not like they can just send it back to the factory, so what would they do with it?

What would you do? Any advise would be appreciated.

Jerry
 
Greeting's Sir-

Failed audit seems like it should be Academy's problem; certainly it is
not yours. If you like the weapon, and desire to keep it -fine. I would
not be in a big hurry to co-operate with them. I smell a rat in the fire
place! :( So long as you complied by completing the 4473 form, there
shouldn't be any recourse directed at you.

Best Wishes,
 
Jerry,

If you paid for it and have the receipt and you did the paperwork, then it's your property. They cannot ask for it back.

So what they failed an audit, not your problem IMHO.

Wayne

*and maybe some more information could help with a better response :).
 
I would ask them what do they mean by the term "audit", and also why do they believe that it is your wife's problem. Except for this confusion, I do not see any valid legal reason for your wife to return it. BTW, I'm a lawyer.
 
It's not clear to me how returning the gun would be any remedy to their "failure" of an audit. About the only thing I can think of is that someone pocketed your money & kept the gun on their inventory??

I would talk more with them about who is now the legal owner of the gun, you, or them.
 
Jehza,

According to my wife, the district manager says that "the FBI audited them" and wants us to return the gun or they will have to take care of it. They want me to buy it instead of my wife, since I'm military and don't require a Florida drivers license to purchase it.

Normally I'd probably just do it.....but I don't like the threat.

Jerry
 
Since when?

"...the district manager says that 'the FBI audited them.'"

Really. Since when is the FBI "auditing" FFLs?

"I can buy a gun in Florida without a Florida license because I'm stationed here....(Academy thought this rule applied to my wife also) [sic] but it doesn't."

If your wife is NOT qualified to purchase under Florida law, why did Academy sell her the gun?

I suspect that:

1. The FBI has nothing to do with this; and

2. Academy is attempting to rectify its error in selling a gun to an unqualified party. Neat trick, as the transfer should be in its bound book and the 4473.

If you're looking for "advise," why isn't this in the legal forum?
 
Your wife is not eligible to purchase a handgun from a dealer because she doesn't meet the requirement that she be a permanent resident of the state in which the handgun is purchased. Therefore she purchased the gun illegally.

Just take the gun back and redo the paperwork. The alternative isn't so pleasant, making illegal purchases from a dealer isn't something to take lightly.

IMO, this isn't a good time to bow up and get stubborn.
 
he's probably lying because he's afraid of a real audit, i would also do as said above and redo the paperwork
 
Never had a wife/family with me when I was stationed in other states that I could legally buy.

I did think/thought that the wife was under the same "orders" as you but may be wrong.

If it was this type of error, and the gun is paid for, then maybe go and do the paperwork in your name. I don't know the rules on this one, sorry.

But, ensure that you read that you can give the gun as a gift. If they refund the money to her and then you pay for it again, ensure that they allow you to put the money into the bank before they cash your money (check).


To tell you the truth, I never thought about the "rights" of active duty and the "rights" of the immediate family on the buying of guns. She is married to you so she should be in the same "under orders" exemption IMHO.

As long as it's no cash out of your pocket, inquire more into what is happening. The FBI doesn't regulate gun shops so that is your first clue, the ATFE does. The FBI doesn't do audits (as in taxes), the ATFE does. The ATFE was allowed to do what they do because they were under the IRS ?right/wrong on this one? They are or were a taxation agency of the US government. With the change over to the homeland security thing, I don't know if they were moved or not.

Even though I've never had any dealings with these store, I have read good things about them. Don't screw them over if it was an honest accident, but make sure they are on the up and up.

Wish you well, make inquires into what is exactly going on.

Wayne
 
As I understand it, your wife bought a gun in Florida, using as ID her drivers license from another state. The store violated the law by allowing her to do that. They now want to go back and start over by allowing you to return the gun and then buy it yourself in your own name. But that would be a "straw purchase" since they know who the gun is for.

They may be able to straighten out the paperwork if you return the gun. But if you don't, and they are audited, BATFE may very well show up and seize the gun anyway, since they would say its purchase was illegal; then you are out the money and the gun. In addition, your wife may have unintentionally violated the law herself by taking possession of the gun.

The question is what to do. Can your wife get a Florida driver's license quick? If so, or if she can provide some other proof of Florida residence, the store may be able to just make out a new 4473 accordingly. (The requirement is not for a drivers license, it is for adequate ID.)

Complicating this is the fact that your wife should be eligible. Assuming she lives with you and is not just visiting, she is a Florida resident. Your status is not relevant; she is a resident of Florida, even if she does not have a drivers license or other ID to prove it.

It looks like the store is trying to do right by starting over. I am not sure how easy that will be to do, though. One thing I would not do is blow up at them until you talk to them. You might find the best bet to be to return the gun, let them do whatever they want as far as their books go, and then go in a week or so later and buy the gun in your name as a new purchaser.

Jim
 
Jim is thinking along the same lines as I. Shame that the active duty exemption does not cover immediate family. Work with the store and get it taken care of.

As for the straw purchase, you can buy a gun as a gift. You have to use your own money but if you have a joint account, it's the same anyway.

Go ahead and call them up and work this out. I'm sure that they just need a person that is able to buy the gun.

Wayne
 
yeah the straw purchase wont come into play with your wife. i would tell the shop that "i cant afford to pay another penny for the transaction" make the eat the reregistration
 
I would say, that you dont feel comfortable dealing with a business that obviously does not have their stuff together, and say you will only bring the gun back for a refund, and that you will purchase the gun from somewhere else.

I really dont like someone lying to me. If they came clean and told me that they screwed up and told me what really happened I would be more willing to work with them. Lie to me, and forget it, Im not helping you. I realize people make mistakes and I would be happy to try and rectify a situation that a business messed up. BUt to cover up messups with a lie like "FBI audits". That's someone I DONT want to have to deal with in the future.
 
I would listen to what Jim Keenan said. The first thing that struck me when I first read this is that your wife may have, inadvertantly for sure, committed a crime. It might be in your best interest to go along with the shop. As has been said, however, you should not have to spend a single extra cent.

I don't think the strawman purchase argument is valid. If you buy the gun and gift it to your wife, that is perfectly legal. Only if you buy the gun with her money with the sole intent to circumvent her not being allowed to buy a gun - anywhere - would it be a strawman purchase. (See the back of a form 4473 for details.)
 
This seems fishy. Your wife ought to be covered under your AD exemption.

I'm the spouse of an AD servicemember who is stationed in Florida. Bought a pistol right before Christmas. Didn't have a Florida license - it wasn't a problem. The gun store (in Tampa area - a very upright and reputable place which I shall not name on the outside chance they did something wrong ;) ), took copies of my husband's orders assigning him here, and a copy of my dependent ID card.

They said it would have been easier if I had gotten even the Florida state ID (I was holding out on the DL until I took my motorcycle course), but I was good to go. The only Florida-resident-type paperwork I had was my voter registration card and I don't recall they were interested in that at all.

Spouses qualify with the same insta-residency as their AD sponsors for fishing/hunting liscensing purposes, and are eligible for the same register-your-vehicle-without-titling-it-in-Florida benefit. In fact...(Abby thinks)...I recall from paperwork at the motor vehicle department that technically, spouses aren't required to get FL DLs at all, unless we seek FL employment.

Anyway, I agree with the above comments. Unless you love your gunshop so much you want to show them some love (and sometimes you find a shop that's worth it!), I don't see why their audit would be your problem.
 
No answers here but a couple of thoughts.

Your spouse is in the service and this situation comes up. Have AD spouse seek the advice of one of the base legal eagles, that's one reason why they're there. I doubt you'd be the first to ask if, for the purpose of a firearm purchase, your wife gets the same exemption. They should be able to give you legal advice even if they have to (horrors) actually do some research.

Secondly, arresting the spouse and/or AD serviceman for illegally obtaining the firearm is, I think, putting the horse before the cart. The gun shop is in the business of selling firearms and should have (a)solid knowledge of the laws (b)reference materials to refer to in such cases and (c)access to their business lawyer for unanswered questions. Thus, if the customer questions the legality of the purchase because they are newly arrived in-state and the dealer says "Oh, you're exempt too, as long as you're married to him", then I think the gun shop becomes the responsible party here. One reason guns are priced the way they are is the dealer is buying advice from others (lawyers) and the customer is, in effect, indirectly paying for that service too. You're paying for him to know his business, including the local and federal laws regarding who can purchase. If he misleads a customer and screws up, it should be on HIS head.

Of course, gubbermint lawyers only see another warm body to prosecute so they can inflate their own "body count". They'll claim that the purchaser must know, understand and obey all of the 22,000 laws. Riiiiiight.

[rant off!]
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top