Stopping a revolver from firing

[AK103K]

Not to mention that the scenario if stopping someone from firing a gun by grabbing it is dependent upon them pointing a gun at you and not just shooting you before you become aware that they have a gun. In that instance, martial arts training etc., is of little use.

Yea, no doubt.

I think most of the scenarios you see people come up with are pretty narrow and geared towards them winning the gunfight they have planned in their mind, and havent gone much past that.

How many have a more broad-based skill set, and realize that "the gun" isnt always going to be the answer. (I know this is a gun board, so of course, the answer is always going to be the gun )

Sometimes you may have to fight your way out of trouble, just to get into more.

This whole thing is really more of a lifestyle or package, that encompasses more than just "one thing". Kind of like a map, compass and GPS all work together to get you there. Only having "one", makes it a bit more difficult.

 

[Hal]

I read somewhere that secret service agents were trained to jam the web of their hand between the hammer and the frame of revolvers or any other gun with an external hammer.

Notsure if that was part of the training or not - but - that's exactly what Secret Service agent Larry Buendorf did when Lynette Fromme pulled the trigger on Ford.
Whether or not it worked will never be known though since the didn't have a round in the chamber.

 

[osbornk]

I think a better choice is to push the barrel to the side, down or up so the shot will miss. I think that would have better odds than trying to keep it from firing.

 

[44 AMP]

If they are close enough and havent yet pulled the trigger, your odds are pretty good at getting to them before they can pull the trigger.

If you're Bruce Lee or Chuck Norris, then yeah, you're probably going to beat me. If you're not, its less certain. Getting to me, or the gun is one thing, getting it out of commission before it goes off is another.

I did some thinking on this and some testing many years ago, and found that a lot depends on whether or not the person with the gun has already decided to shoot, or not. It is a subtle distinction but planning on doing X and deciding to do X are different things. It's not exactly the same as the slapping game.

The subject does make me wonder what the outcome would be if a trained martial artist were facing someone with the skill level of Ed McGivern. Within arms reach, gun drawn and leveled, I think the martial artist would quite possibly be able to grab or slap away McGivern's now empty revolver, before the several bullet holes in him slowed him down...

The reason people can do it in the movies is because its in the script.

 

[LeverGunFan]

Notsure if that was part of the training or not - but - that's exactly what Secret Service agent Larry Buendorf did when Lynette Fromme pulled the trigger on Ford.
Whether or not it worked will never be known though since the didn't have a round in the chamber.

As I recall, that was the story that I had referenced in my previous post. The primary motion was to push the firearm down, while getting a part of the hand between the hammer and the frame.

 

[AK103K]

If you're Bruce Lee or Chuck Norris, then yeah, you're probably going to beat me. If you're not, its less certain. Getting to me, or the gun is one thing, getting it out of commission before it goes off is another.

I did some thinking on this and some testing many years ago, and found that a lot depends on whether or not the person with the gun has already decided to shoot, or not. It is a subtle distinction but planning on doing X and deciding to do X are different things. It's not exactly the same as the slapping game.

The subject does make me wonder what the outcome would be if a trained martial artist were facing someone with the skill level of Ed McGivern. Within arms reach, gun drawn and leveled, I think the martial artist would quite possibly be able to grab or slap away McGivern's now empty revolver, before the several bullet holes in him slowed him down...

The reason people can do it in the movies is because its in the script.

When I said "close enough", I was assuming you were basically toe to toe, face to face. Maybe a "step" away. Anything beyond that, no.

As far as the action/reaction thing, unless you have something physically wrong with you, pretty much anyone can do it. You dont have to be Bruce Lee. Its just human physiology.

Try it yourself with a friend. Unless you do have a twitchy response like Miculeck, you likely wont stop the other guy tapping your ear, even though you know its coming. Tap, punch, grab, its all the same. If you let the other guy start, you have to react to their action, and play catch up,

I think a lot of misunderstanding of things here is, "most" people have little experience/exposure to dealing with people physically. I think its safe to say most avoid it. I also think "most" who carry a gun seem to think, that that is all they need to do, have a gun and maybe produce a gun to stop anything from happening.

If you have a gun, your greatest advantage is distance. If you allow someone to close the gap, and get close to you, you begin to lose your advantage.

If youre on the other end of that, and have someone put a gun in your face, like you always see in the movies, your odds just went up a good bit. You have a lot better chance getting that gun, than you do if they were 10 feet away.

A lot of this is mindset too. I would say many, if not most these days, do not have the mindset to fight or are even prepared to, gun in their pocket or not.

 

[stephen426]

Let's talk about the most plausible situations where you are going to have a gun shoved in your face. Most likely, it would occur during a robbery. If someone was intent on killing you out right, they probably won't wait till they are within contact range if they have a firearm. There are going to be all kinds of variables to consider such as:

Your gut feeling: While there is no way to know for certain, does this appear to be a simple robbery or has the robber given you a feeling that you are going to get shot even if you comply. I believe most of us here would give up any material possession if it meant we wouldn't be shot.
Body language that your assailant is giving off: Do they appear to be nervous (twitchy) or are they experienced criminals. Are they on drugs or impaired? How are they holding the weapon? Do they have their arm out making it easier to push the gun away or is it more in a retention position?
Size and perceived strength of your assailant: Do you even have a chance of wrestling a gun away from them or do they appear to be way stronger or faster?
The presence of possible accomplices: If there are other unsavory characters acting as look outs nearby, going for the assailant's gun may still be a losing proposition, or turn a robbery into a gun fight.
Your actual physical capabilities and training: Are you fairly quick or strong enough to inflict enough damage to your assailant? Do you have any training and how proficient are you?
The presence and location of bystanders: If I have my family with me and there is is a risk that sweeping the gun will cause one of them to get shot, going for the assailant's gun would be an absolute last resort.
The size and type of weapon: Are they carrying a 9mm or better. If not, laugh at them and insult their intelligence, then pull your large caliber handgun and go all Dirty Harry on them. (just kidding). Is it a revolver or semi-auto? Does the assailant have the hammer cocked back?

There could be many more variables that come into play in this situation. If you really feel you are going to get shot regardless, fight for your life. If you have a fairly good chance of taking control of the situation (all conditions seem to be in your favor), that becomes a personal call. There are no guarantees that a robber won't shoot you after you've complied so take their threat of deadly force seriously.

If you decide to act, you need to avoid telegraphing your intentions and try to distract your assailant. I'm not sure how many of us have been at gun point, but you should probably be at least somewhat nervous (unless they are holding a mouse gun ). Get your hands up where it will be easier to grab the weapon. Toss or drop your wallet so they have to move to get it. Look behind them suddenly. It is instinctive for people to look in the direction you look. Move your body out of the way in addition to redirecting the gun. I'm sure there are other tactics so feel free to share them with us.