Stopping a revolver from firing

TXAZ

New member
A semi pointed at you can be stopped by grabbing the slide and pushing it backwards so the firing pin either will not engage or will not strike the primer.
Is there something similar for a revolver:

If someone were to grab the cylinder of an uncocked revolver, and prevent it from rotating, would it fire?
 
As long as the gun isnt cocked, if you grab the gun at the cylinder, it cant be fired. It doesnt require any real strength to do it either.

If its cocked, it all depends on where its pointed. It can and will fire that one round (unless you slip something between the hammer and frame). It wont be shooting a second time though, as long as you still have a hold of it. :)
 
I read somewhere that secret service agents were trained to jam the web of their hand between the hammer and the frame of revolvers or any other gun with an external hammer.
 
I read somewhere that secret service agents were trained to jam the web of their hand between the hammer and the frame of revolvers or any other gun with an external hammer.

That used to be standard training for all cops.
 
I read somewhere that secret service agents were trained to jam the web of their hand between the hammer and the frame of revolvers or any other gun with an external hammer.

Howdy

I seem to remember that when Lee Harvey Oswald was arrested in the movie theater in Texas, that is exactly what happened. He pulled his revolver, a S&W revolver of some sort, and he attempted to fire it. The arresting officer got some part of his hand between the firing pin and the frame.

Must have hurt like the dickens, but it was better than being shot.



This is a Smith and Wesson 38 Double Action Perfected. They were made from 1909 until 1920. This one was made in 1917. This is the last Top Break revolver that S&W made. Notice in addition to the barrel latch up near the hammer, there is a sliding thumbpiece, just like any modern S&W revolver. With this gun, in order to open it, you had to lift the latch AND push the thumbpiece forward simultaneously. Do only one at a time and it could not be opened. I have heard that part of the reason for this design was that a bad guy could not reach over the top of the revolver and lift up the latch, opening the revolver. Don't know if I believe that reasoning or not, but it certainly would be impossible to open it. Yes, with any other Top Break one can reach over the top and lift the latch so the revolver opens, rendering it useless. But it would take a lot of cojones to do it.


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If you grab the cylinder and hold it with some force, it can be prevented from being rotated by the revolver hand-mechanism. Unlike pushing a slide out of battery, at this point, it becomes a contest of force because you must hold the cylinder against more than just a fixed amount of spring force. The person pulling the trigger is exerting force to turn the cylinder by turning the "hand" on its axis. It should be noted that this can bend or distort the hand which pivots on a fairly small steel axle pin. So if you want to see what is stronger, your ability to hold the cylinder from turning, or your ability to turn the cylinder with the trigger, beware you could damage the gun and need a replacement hand.

If the gun were pointed at me, I would not want to be in this contest. I would also not attempt to wedge my hand under the hammer. It is almost certainly better practice to direct the muzzle away, strike the radial nerve or radius bone and/or twist the gun out of the hand. These are grosser motor movements that don't attempt to fiddle with the internal mechanism of the gun, but simply move the whole gun away from where it can be used effectively. I don't intend my description of techniques to be complete, but you can study gun disarms as part of the ciricula of several martial arts.
 
Techniques my wife has used in RL:
“Honey, the dog needs a walk”
“Honey, the lawn needs mowed”
“Honey, the deck need stained again”

All techniques that kept me from the range for the day!
 
A semi pointed at you can be stopped by grabbing the slide and pushing it backwards so the firing pin either will not engage or will not strike the primer.
Is there something similar for a revolver:

If someone were to grab the cylinder of an uncocked revolver, and prevent it from rotating, would it fire?

Yes, it can be done. it's also, as far as I'm concerned, in the last ditch, got nothing left to lose tactical niche.

First, you need to be aware that while you can prevent a semi or a revolver from firing by "tying up" the action, both types will FIRE as soon as the pressure eases.

Different designs are easier or harder to do this with, it all depends on lots of things, the most important basic one is that the bad guys gun has to be within arms reach, and stay that way.

I'm not talking about techniques to disarm your opponent, I'm referring only the mechanically keeping the pistol from firing. Basically, with both a semi and a revolver, you have to grab it in the right place and HOLD it, keeping your grip and enough pressure to keep parts from moving.

Slick metal parts, possibly oily slick metal parts, using mostly only finger strength, with a fairly small contact area between your hand and the gun part you need to keep from moving. And, you need to maintain that grip no matter what the guy holding the gun does, and he's going to me moving it, twisting it, doing everything he can to break your grip WHILE also pulling the trigger.

With a DA revolver, you may get some advantage if you can jam your finger(s) in a cylinder flute, against the frame, to keep the cylinder from being turned. IF the gun doesn't have a fluted cylinder, that possibility is off the table.

And, in order for it to work, you have to know which way the cylinder rotates. Grab it on the "wrong" side, your mechanical leverage to stop the cylinder turning is very low. If you clamp your hand around the cylinder it can be done, but you have to keep enough pressure on the cylinder to prevent it turning, no matter what else happens, or the gun will fire.

NOT an easy thing, no where near as easy as it looks in the movies. Also, be aware that anything that makes the gun or your hand slippery SERIOUSLY reduces your odds of success. Oil, sweat, blood, mud, or anything else that reduces friction makes it more difficult, perhaps impossible.

ALSO, while all this is going on you have to keep your body clear of the muzzle, otherwise a fraction of a second of "slip" could get you shot.

it's actually a better idea to jam some part of your hand between the hammer and the frame, or grab the gun over the hammer its not already cocked. No method is guaranteed, or reliable, so I consider them last ditch tactics.

SOME semi autos can be pushed out of battery, but again, the key here is that they have to be HELD out of battery no matter what else is going on. Lots and lots of variables, most of them fully out of your control.

Take the common tilt barrel semi, pushing on the front of the slide can move it out of battery, so it won't fire. The disconnector will do its job, and if the trigger is pulled, and held, while out of battery, the gun won't fire when it returns to battery, until the trigger is released and pulled again.

MAYBE that's something the bad guy won't realize, maybe not.

If you are facing something other than the usual tilt barrel service pistol type gun, it becomes even MORE difficult. Fixed barrel semis won't go out of battery from pushing on the barrel, the front of the slide c. You would have to grab the slide somewhere else, (again, small surface area and possibly slippery) and HOLD the slide open enough to disconnect the firing mechanism.

NOT an easy thing to do, almost literally needing both hands. There is a very low order possibility that while you and the bad guy are grappling over the gun, you might be able to punch the magazine release button, or even put the safety ON, (assuming the gun has those features and you can get to them) but there is a lot happening in seconds, and I think random chance has as great a possibility as anything you plan to do. Probably more.

I think your odds are better trying to break the bad guys grip on the weapon than stopping the gun from firing by grabbing (and holding) it.
 
With regard to breaking the bad guy's grip, a good, hard whack to the back side of the metacarpals (back side of the palm) can cause a loosened grip. At least it works on me; if I'm holding something, and I happen to hit the back of my hand on something hard, I almost invariably drop whatever I'm holding.

D
 
A good jab to the face, a palm in the nose, etc., should break his concentration. I would stick my thumb between the hammer and the frame, a little more solid than the web.
 
I think stopping a revolver cylinder from turning would be much easier than trying to get a semi-auto out of battery. All the shooter has to do is pull back and the gun is back in battery. If I was in contact distance, I would try and redirect the gun while striking for the eyes, nose, throat, etc. There are some techniques that also involve turning the gun so it breaks the shooter's finger against the trigger guard. Certainly last ditch efforts.
 
Thanks gentlemen.
It sounds like the safest way to deal with a hostile actor pointing a revolver (or semi) at you is to retreat to 600 to 1,000 yards and engage with a precision rifle from there :)
 
Good luck getting that plan to work. Unless you can maintain your grip on the gun while still managing to get the upper hand in the fight and disarm the bad guy the revolver can be fired as soon as you lose your grip and the auto can be fired as soon as it's back in battery or the slide is racked.
 
Good luck getting that plan to work. Unless you can maintain your grip on the gun while still managing to get the upper hand in the fight and disarm the bad guy the revolver can be fired as soon as you lose your grip and the auto can be fired as soon as it's back in battery or the slide is racked.
That was sarcasm, hence the smiley face. :) The real message is situational awareness saves getting into those situations.
 
This entire discussion is strictly about Hollywood fantasy and nothing whatever to do with reality.
"...A semi pointed at you can be stopped by grabbing the slide..." Don't be daft. It takes microseconds for a hammer to fall and discharge the pistol. You are not and never will be fast enough.
Grabbing the cylinder will stop a DA revolver firing. It'll stop the cylinder rotating on an SA too. You will still be fighting whoever has the business end in his hand though. And if the thing has been recently fired it'll be friggin' HOT. Hot enough to burn your hide.
 
I read somewhere that secret service agents were trained to jam the web of their hand between the hammer and the frame of revolvers or any other gun with an external hammer.

This is in the training. Not necessarily the web. Can't guarantee that in a grab without taking your eyes off of everything else. They were supposed to grab at the hammer and block the hammer from falling, jamming the slide, locking the cylinder, etc.

Then, there was a move that they were taught that would break the wrist or at least a few fingers.
 
This entire discussion is strictly about Hollywood fantasy and nothing whatever to do with reality.
"...A semi pointed at you can be stopped by grabbing the slide..." Don't be daft. It takes microseconds for a hammer to fall and discharge the pistol. You are not and never will be fast enough.
Grabbing the cylinder will stop a DA revolver firing. It'll stop the cylinder rotating on an SA too. You will still be fighting whoever has the business end in his hand though. And if the thing has been recently fired it'll be friggin' HOT. Hot enough to burn your hide.
You obviously haven't had any martial arts training, or you'd know better. If they are close enough and havent yet pulled the trigger, your odds are pretty good at getting to them before they can pull the trigger.

Its the "action vs reaction" thing. We could stand face to face and you hold your hand at your ear, guarding it, and Ill slap that ear pretty much every time, and even though you know its coming. Ive done that a bazillion times to people like you who dont think it cant happen. ;)

If the revolver is in DA, your odds of hindering it firing can be pretty good. SA, all depends on how fast you get off line as you try.

If its been fired enough to be that hot, its also likely empty. And who cares if its hot, if what I did, gets me the gun and not shot? ;)
 
This entire discussion is strictly about Hollywood fantasy and nothing whatever to do with reality.
"...A semi pointed at you can be stopped by grabbing the slide..." Don't be daft. It takes microseconds for a hammer to fall and discharge the pistol. You are not and never will be fast enough.
Grabbing the cylinder will stop a DA revolver firing. It'll stop the cylinder rotating on an SA too. You will still be fighting whoever has the business end in his hand though. And if the thing has been recently fired it'll be friggin' HOT. Hot enough to burn your hide.
Not to mention that the scenario if stopping someone from firing a gun by grabbing it is dependent upon them pointing a gun at you and not just shooting you before you become aware that they have a gun. In that instance, martial arts training etc., is of little use.
 
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