Stopped & Searched in PRK, Part II

I don't know if anyone brought it up earlier, but the reason Kaligunner has to take his Ar's to renge ranges is because most of the open space in SoCal there you can go out and unload is BLM land and the rule is that you can't shoot grandfathered in "assault weapon" on BLM land. My friends dad almost got a registered AK-47 (regiested it for the 89 ban) taken away, cuz they didn't know that rule and they took it out in 92 after it became an assault weapon

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It ain't mah fault. did I do dat?
 
Being a "prisoner" in Kalifornia, this is an interesting thread. I find myself being a possible target for this kind of thing. So if I do deny the officer's request to search my vehicle, what happens then? Do they just go ahead and search anyway if they have probable cause? Do they then have to obtain a warrant and hold me?
 
GreenMachine, you might want to check out Part I of the thread. Near the end of the thread someone posted a link to the ACLU, on how to deal with the police, and your rights when stopped.

You might want to read that and get a good idea of it. I know I am. I feel ALL of us should know these laws to the very last word, because it could very well happen to any of us on the way to or from a shooting trip.
 
MusclesMcGee:
Quote:
"I swear to God this happened,
and if it weren't for the fact that I was 20 at the time, and the jury had an average age of 65, I probably wouldn't of been convicted."

I'm over 65 and if I had been on your jury and this thing went down exactly as you have described, then you would NEVER have been convicted. It's called jury nullification. So please Sir....ease off ALL of us old guy's, some of us know and understand the Bill of Rights!

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"Lead, follow or get the HELL out of the way."
 
DorGunR... You my friend are an execption to the rule, especially here in CA.

Most "experienced" (read senior) citizens are only concerned with their rights as they pertain to age discrimination, and health services / social security, the standard AARP issues, etc...

I know many who hold the same position as you, but I also know far too many, who happen to be veterans, who believe the Second Ammendment expired in the 20th century.

I wish my father were still alive. He was extremely active in the American Legion, VFW, etc, and would loose his mind if he could witness the erosion of rights we have encountered since he set sail.

To imagine a complete generation who have wilfully sacraficed our freedoms is truly inconceivable, but it is reality.

I pray that our society recognizes the patterns before it is too late...
 
KaliGunner and all,

Sounds like you were the victim of an improper search by a rouge cop. As with folks in all professions, there are good and bad.

After a similar incident years ago, I “educated” myself in these matters. My I offer some advice? The ACLU “bust card” at the site listed above (in the previous thread) is basic good information for encounters with the police. Print it and carry a copy with you. Memorize it. Give copies to family and friends. I have had a similar card that deals with:

Instructions For Contact With Agents Of The United States Government

1. Be polite and courteous at all times!
2. Request positive identification from the agent. Prior to any discussion, make a notation of the agent’s name, address, work telephone, and the name of his supervisor. If not certain of the identity of the agent, call his office or superior before continuing the interview.
3. Ask for a statement (verbal or written) from the agent that explains the scope of the interview and the reason you are being contacted.
4. Express willingness to cooperate, but request that the agent schedule an appointment with you at a more convenient time.
5. Request that a future meeting be held at the agent’s office (not at your residence or place of business).
6. Make no statements without the advice of legal counsel.
7. Sign no papers without the advice of legal counsel.
8. Do not consent to any voluntary search of your person, residence or automobile unless you have first been advised by your legal counsel.
9. Unless you have been advised that you are under arrest, you may terminate the interview at any time and leave!
10. REMEMBER, Clients create 90% of their own problems by making statements to agents before seeking the advice of counsel!
11. KEEP YOUR MOUTH CLOSED!


As an ex-Eagle Scout, I firmly believe in the motto; BE PREPARED.

A few other prudent steps that may prove helpful at a future court hearing;

1. Carry a small mini-cassette tape recorder in your vehicle at all times. Fresh batteries and extra tapes are a necessity. (A tape recorder to a rouge cop is like a cross is to Dracula.)
2. A small cheap camera, or better yet a small video camera, may prove very useful in the event of an unlawful search.
3. Either your attorney’s business card or his number programmed into your cell phone is a must have in the event things turn ugly.
4. If I may recommend reading “You and The Police” by Boston T. Party. This small book is very informative and can be read in one setting. It is available at Amazon.com for about 15 bucks.

Good luck next time.


[This message has been edited by Skyhawk (edited February 03, 2000).]
 
Some very good material covered her.
I've taken the Liberty to download, print, and laminate some cards for friends and relatives to carry.

I've decided to place one of these with every firearm in the carrying case. That way, if'n the need arises it's there.

Thanks for the good lead gents.
As the song goes, "The world revolves around lessons learned".

Best Regards,
Don

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The most foolish mistake we could make would be to allow the subjected people to carry arms; history shows that all conquerers who have allowed their subjected people to carry arms have prepared their own fall.
Adolf Hitler

[This message has been edited by Donny (edited February 03, 2000).]
 
I had my *home* illegally searched for guns by Kalifornia LEOs last year, entering my home after everyone had left for work. The situation was pretty ugly and we were being threatened and harrassed by the LEOs and ATF for days, after I made it absolutely clear that they need to piss off (they kept coming back wanting to "inspect" my stuff some more). It took an army of lawyers and the LEOs getting caught in an irrefutable lie (that made it bloody obvious that the warrantless search was illegal) to get them to back off.

I have never been so violently pissed off as I was at that time. It makes my blood boil just thinking about it. I packed up my stuff and moved from Kalifornia within a week of the start of that fiasco.

Prior to this event, my fiance (who was raised in another country but has lived in the US for many years) had a generally positive view of the US govt. Now she is quite certain that the US is a police state in disguise and has developed a paranoia and distrust of the government that she never had before.

Damn it, now I've got myself riled up again...
 
I would suggest you never give permission to search anything, even if you have nothing to hide. When you give "consent", any protections you have under the Fourth Amendment go out the window.

While a peace officer may search your motor vehicle without a warrant if he has probable cause to believe he will find contraband or evidence/fruits of a crime, his thought process in arriving at that probable cause will be subject to judicial scrutiny just as if he sought a search warrant from a magistrate. Make him work for it.

If he threatens to get a search warrant if you do not give consent, by all means encourage him to get the search warrant. He has just acknowledged that he needs one.
 
Whoa! Chink, you've really got my attention now. You said '... the rule is that you can't shoot grandfathered in "assault weapon" on BLM land.' What the heck is this ?!?! KaliGunner? DC? Are you saying you could shoot a post-ban, so-called 'assault rifle' on BLM land, but not a pre-ban?

Federal law, or CA? First I've ever heard of this BS. What's next?

Please clarify - this is news to me. (Sorry if I've been asleep on this issue ...)
 
WRT shooting on BLM land, my understanding is that PRK doesn't allow any assault weapons. Preban, postban, whatever.

Until this year, however, the Kali-labelled assault weapons were listed by name in the Roberti-Roos ban. I believe that federal AWs were OK until Kali law expanded to encompass all of them and then some. I may be wrong about the federal prebans, but it's academic now, isn't it? ;)

-Mick

ALL GUN CONTROL LAWS ARE ILLEGAL
 
KaliGunner,
Did you get the officer's name and badge number? I fear that without this info the Sheriff's dept may not take a complaint seriously. Your word against his sort of thing.

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Strength is the outcome of need; security sets a premium on feebleness. H.G. Wells The Time Machine
 
Before the beginning of this year, my understanding was that "Assault Weapons" were those that were listed on the Roberti-Roos ban list. Now they are just about any gun that fits the SB23 description.

Yes, I kept my cool and did get his badge number and name. I am going to file a complaint in the morning.

Lets hope this goes well...
 
Skyhawk;

The note about the little tape recorder is a good one. However, Cops are not friendly at all towards tape recorders or video cameras. Not at all.

I have a friend who has a nice video of a West Va State Trooper threatening to "release the dog" if he didn't "put the camera down" during an unwarrented search of his rv at
a roadside "Drug Checkpoint". He put the camera down.

There was no doubt in his mind that the trooper was going make good on the threat.

He will never go back to that state again.

It's been my take on the matter that if you are dealing with a "rogue" element of law enforcement, your life is in jeopardy. A recording device or cell phone is just going to aggravate the already iffy situation.

As a side note to the active LEOs on this board. There is a perception among an ever growing part of the population that while so called "rogue" cops are the exception rather than the rule, the existence of them at all implies tolerance and sanction on behalf of the "good" cops. Its the old who polices the the police issue. Draw your own conclusions.

Ex-Leo dog3 out.
 
dog3,

You must have been reading my mind.

It's sad, but true, that 'one bad apple....' applies to all segments of society. :(

That's one reason I believe we're all very interested in how this turns out for KaliGunner....

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...defend the 2nd., it protects us all.
No fate but what we make...
 
Dog3: Agreed about the tape recorder; We had an incident a few years back here in Michigan, don't recall the details, where somebody started a tape recorder as a police officer approached their car, and he wound up arresting the guy on some specious charge. And confiscating the tape... A legit cop will not mind the tape recorder, or giving his badge number. The rogue ones by definition aren't reasonable. My advice? Go ahead and get a tape recorder, but nothing says it has to be ON TOP of the seat to work!

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Sic semper tyranus!
 
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