Stopped and Searched by LEO on the way home from the range last weekend.

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KaliGunner

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Some of you may have already read this...fellow AR15.com'ers.

I too am a refugee from AR15.com, somehow wandered my way over here :)
How strange do I feel :)

Ok, here it goes...

Last Saturday, my friend and I went up to the Angeles National Forest, here in Southern California, to the Burro Canyon range. It's an established range, not a free-for-all spot. Especially now that my AR15 is considered an "assault weapon", I can only shoot it at established ranges.

My friend and I go up there, blast our requisite rounds.

I had my AR15, SKS, Mossberg 500.
Friend had his SKS, AK, Enfield .303.

On the way down from the range, I drove very conservatively, was sure not to break any speed limits. Add that to the fact I was unable to, as I was following another person who was going about 35mph in a 40mph zone.

So as soon as we get out of the forest area, an LA County Sheriff officer has his lights and sirens on and tells me to pull over.

We pull over, I present him with my license/reg.

He tells us to get out of the car, and give him my keys. He frisks/searches us. Then tells us to sit on that curb over there.

I ask him politely why I was pulled over.
He said "this is the way we do things".

He opens my trunk, and then takes the guns out of the cases one by one. Places them all in his car. He then sits in his patrol car for a good while running them through a check system of some sort.

To make matters worse on a side note, these old folks drove up and said "lock those gun-runners away for a long time".

Grr. Thanks a whole f********* lot.

Then he comes back and says that "there is no record of these guns in the database. Did you steal these guns??" (Very accusational tone).

We said that we got them at the gun store, did all the paperwork, DROS, background check, etc. etc. etc.

(Isn't it law that the state removes all record of a gun after a certain amount of time on a long gun, in California?, only handguns are registered).

He tells us that we better go to the county office and have these guns registered to us, because we are currently felons for keeping these guns in our possession.

He then asks us "where are the SKS magazines?"

We said we don't have any, that our SKS's are the original, not the sporter, we keep them in the fixed box, stock manner, no mods. He then asks us again. We tell him that the only mags we have are those for my AR15 and his AK. He goes through the car and searches through, then he finds a 9mm casing. He then asks us unpolitely "WHERE ARE YOU HIDING THE PISTOL".

We said we don't have one, it must be stray cases flying in the bag from the range. So he goes and searches my car more and more and more.

After a good half-hour or so, he lets us go. He didn't cite us for anything, didnt give me an explanation. I still dont see why we were pulled over. I still dont know the "just cause" for this.

We weren't speeding.

We didn't look like "hoodlums".

Just ordinary upstanding people.

My biggest question of all is HOW THE H*** DID HE KNOW WE HAD FIREARMS IN THE CAR?!?!?!

I'm angry and ticked.


It's like someone at AR15.com said to me:
"Guilty until proven innocent"

I really experienced it this weekend.
 
Time to move.

It sounds to me like the officer was tipped off by somebody at your 'range' that wanted you guys to get stopped and checked for 'registration' of assault weapons (a misnomer, I know...). This would lead to him not telling you why you were pulled over, but that this "is the way we do things".

I would bet that somebody at that range saw you shooting, called the local sheriff and asked him to come and 'check you out'.

As I started this thread, Time to move.
 
KaliGunner, I know this'll piss you off. I don't mean to. I hope you don't broad brush all cops as being the same. It truly sounds like someone called the cops. I mean come on, what's the chances. If you really feel you were treated unfairly, file a complaint. Those things DO get investigated. Just go in with a good attitude, not like you want justice, etc, etc. Sometimes, I feel, that you have to just deal with it. BECAUSE, a lot of criminals get caught that way. Think if was me in possession of your guns. You'd kiss the cop!

Believe me. I am very scared that gun ownership will go away. What can I do about it? Other than write my reps, congressmen etc. and join and support financially the NRA, not much. Take care. I'm on your side. BILL
 
He needs at least reasonable suspicion to search your car. Call the SO, get with the I.A. dept, and register a complaint!!! Sheriff depts. are political, in that they directly respond to voter pressure. It may very well have been the result of calls from people like those old folks that got you pulled over. Now they need to get official contact from someone who's pissed about it; you. Do not hide under a bushel that you're a registered voter. This search, without an articulable reason to even pull you over, would be illegal.
 
To me, this is beyond outrageous if true. I personally would have refused a search and told him to furk off! He had no right to stop you, let alone search, delay, search again, harass, imply that you're felons, etc. He and his dept. supervisor need to be publicly whipped about the head, neck, and testicles. But you in CA, not America....
 
Kaligunner...

Let's see now...hmmmmm. You weren't speeding, you were't weaving, you didn't have pot smoke blowing out of your windows, you didn't just hit a pedestrian, and you didn't have an "I hate PIGS" bumper sticker on your vehicle, but the LEO still pulled you over and "demanded" a search??!!!

First of all, I don't care what state you live in (even the Communist province of California), an LEO has no right to perform an "unreasonable search" without reasonable and just cause. Sounds like you gave him no reason to justify that illegal search. You still live in America remember.

I know hindsight is 20/20 but, you should have pulled over (using your turn signal of course), cracked your window and had your driver's license, registration, and insurance card ready and waiting for him. You should have asked for the reason he pulled you over, and unless there was a very good one, you should have NEVER opened your door, got out, and allowed that search to take place.

Now, your unregistered weapons are REGISTERED!

This is NOT a police state!
 
Oh, I should mention that I only add "if true" not because I have any reason to suspect your veracity, Kaligunner - but it's just a standard disclaimer this day and age for anything I get off the net, until proven with strong/tangible evidence, less'n I know you personally.
 
If I lived in Cal right now, I wouldn't even take any Semi-auto out of my house (Unless I lived in the middle of nowhere and could shoot it on MY LAND) since they don't even know how the final version will be written or implemented. Lots of room to cause grief and then they can say oops.

I have friend here In MO who stopped taking his mil pattern semi-autos to the Conservation Dept ranges years ago as the range officers were always trying to run the guns to find out if they were illegal. Even though they don’t have that authority.

I am interested in how this officer got his probable cause for the stop. If someone at the range was an informer then I wouldn't go back. They are obviously more dangerous than you guns
 
My wife's a realtor here in the mountains west of Denver and will send you any info relating to relocating. Unemployment is low single digits, so there are many job opportunities. Pack your stuff and leave for Colorado now.
 
I'm sorry, but what happen is just plain B.S. Heads NEED to roll for this. If we keep letting this kind of thing happen regardless of whether the Officer got a call or not then we're just one more step closer to a facist society. I say make as much noise as you can. Let the S.O. know that as a law abiding citizen you have the RIGHT not to be treated this way and then told to just go on our way. I think that officer owes you and your friend a public apology.

Some of you may disagree, but that's just too much.
 
we in cali. need to start bringing tape recorders & or video cameras when going shooting for proof of what is happening. you can just about bet the deputy had a tape recorder going.
 
Don't let the cops intimidate you. (I know, easy to say, especially when they have a gun.)

You are protected against unreasonable search and seizure, even in California. If the cop won't give you a reason for the stop, call the local enforcement bureau immediately and report it. Register your complaint. Then at least it's on the record from your side.

If he asks to search your vehicle, tell him no! He has no right to search without probable cause, and he must tell you what that probable cause is.

If he has probable cause, he doesn't have to ask you, but he still has to tell you what those charges are. If he doesn't, get on the phone.

If he proceeds illegally, and/or if he kicks the tar out of you, guess what. You'll probably get a nice fat settlement!

I know, easy to say. But that's the law. Don't let a renegade take your rights without raising wholly hell.
 
KaliGunner:
Sounds as if you might have a cause for legal action against the dept. and individual officer, IF you can afford to take same.

In this country, we have the best system of "justice" that money can buy. Given enough of the latter,MONEYthat is, things like "that's the way we do things" don't hold water. For "Joe Everyman" however, the story turns out to be rather different. Looking into filing a formal complaint sounds like a good idea though.
 
Don't mean to minimize the seriousness of this issue KaliGunner (I still think you need to raise hell about this) but it could have been worse. Since the guns weren't "registered," seems like they could have been seized, ala, "Prove these aren't stolen if you want them back."

Incidents like you described are, in the long run, doing a lot more damage to law enforcement than everyone realizes. I agree with PumpBlast in that I of course don't wish to tar with a broad brush, but a lot of people don't display such restraint. Witness the whole mess in LA right now. However, just because a "lot of criminals get caught that way" doesn't make it right. Imagine how many criminals would be caught if the police could simply enter your home at will any time they wished and search it! I'm sure it would put a big dent in criminal activity, but do you really want to live that way? Call me hysterical if you want, but this is already going on in public housing projects so how long until it applies to the rest of us?
 
Just a thought for all of us to consider - what IF one of us did have the opportunity to legally challenge an illegal search like this one - would you be willing to contribute to one of our "brothers' in arms" legal expenses...?

I'm in.

CMOS



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GOA, TSRA, LEAA, NRA, SAF and I vote!
 
CMOS - I'd been in too.

It's too bad SAF or one of the leaner, meaner orgs would set up an escrow fund dedicated to prosecute and follow through on cases such as these. The fact that there was an org with the money and intent around might place a chill on attitudes like this.

Part of a possible problem would be is that people have to work. While the expenses might be covered, the time off from work would still be a factor.

Still, I'd be in if some outfit would start up a fund.

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The New World Order has a Third Reich odor.
 
Kaligunner, it is time to take legal action. First, check with the NRA and talk with one of their lawyers. If nothing else, to keep them aware of whats happening. Secondly, here is the name of a firearms lawyer here in So. Kali. He is quite good and you already may have of heard of him.
Bruce Colodny 909-862 3113 or 714-639 6767.
I would not put up with that sh*t myself. You can tell him I put his name on this sight. I would even go so far as to maybe bring suit against the range. Go talk to them and try and find out who called the cops. I know, it'll be hard. Keep us posted.

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From my cold dead hands.
 
Kaligunner,
Have you called the sheriff (not a deputy, but the actual elected sheriff)? Have you called an attorney?

I don't know what the laws are in California, but here in Illinois we must have probable cause to stop a vehicle. I have worked interdiction details where we knew someone was carrying drugs, but did not stop them because we could not develop enough PC.

What reason did he give for stopping you? You can't just detain someone without reason.
Did he ask permission to search your car? Did you give it?

This person has no business carrying a badge if everything came down the way you tell it.
Even if someone had turned you in for having "evil" assault weapons, that is not sufficient probable cause to stop you. When dispatches like that are put out they are invariably "make your own case" which means it's up to the officer to develop PC to make an initial stop, conduct a search etc. Here these dispatches are always prefaced with "Caution do not stop, detain or arrest solely on the basis of this information". Maybe California is different.
Jeff
 
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>He tells us that we better go to the county office and have these guns registered to us, because we are currently felons for keeping these guns in our possession.[/quote]
If that is what he said, and if it is true that you were felons for keeping those guns in your possession (which I don't think is the case) then that officer broke the law.
It is illegal for any police officer to ignore a crime.
So, either he was breaking the law and didn't care, or he was lying to you and doesn't care.
So, he just doesn't care. You need to follow up on this. Personally, I think it is an individual responsibility to act on government abuse of power.
If this guy isn't called on his behavior what happens when he pulls over a nineteen year old law-abiding mexican immigrant (non-english speaking) who is heading home from the range with his SKS?
Maybe things will go okay, or maybe that particular cop will beat the crap out of the driver because the cop thinks he's God and needs to punish this "gang-banger".
You need to get in touch with the supervisor, or the super's super, or whoever it takes to get some results.
The majority of cops are hard-working, responsible citizens.
We need to followup on ALL abuses of power, because an abuse of power is an abuse of trust, and is a violation of human rights.
FWIW, -Kframe
 
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