JerryS I dont really care, just gets old hearing the samething over n over again. Ill keep both of my revolvers and Ill keep on shooting them just as I have been, but every revolver owner has probably heard this subject thrown their way more then once and that whole amount of ammo is the last thing that should come up but it seems to always be one of the first things said when I ask, why should I get a semi auto?
Stop saying I should get a semi auto, I love my revolvers!
- Thread starter abowlieb
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abowlieb,
I hear ya on some things. Like you said, no it shouldn't be a selling point. Capacity can be preference. When I think of a semi I do not think of capacity. Also I agree that anybody that tells you that you should "get this because of this" is just an ignorant person. For the most part we can get what we want and that's a beautiful part of our freedom (unless Hillary is elected president). So shoot what you want, carry what you want, just enjoy. Unfortunately, there are ignorant people everywhere. Everyone is gonna want the latest and greatest. Hell, look at the smart phone phase the world is going through. If I hear one more person say I need to get a stupid iPhone, well, you get the point. I don't think I'll ever buy a wheelgun, but not because I think there's anything wrong with them, just cause there not for me.
But also, I disagree with capacity for SD. I've been shooting a long time. And I had a lot of practice. But unfortunately my mind tends to think of the worst case scenario. Call me paranoid! While some may be thinking one wigged out meth head will break into there house and do god knows what, I'm always thinking there's gonna be two or three wigged out math heads breaking in. You can under go a lot of training but in that heat of the moment, I still would want more than 6 rounds. You can call me a bad shot or whatever else, but in the heat of the moment with that much adrenaline, tunnel vision, and for some, probably irrational thinking, I'm gonna do whatever it takes to keep my family alive. And that for me means not having to reload after (if it came to it) 14 or whatever rounds. With that said, I'm not saying some cant reload a wheelie faster than I can drop a mag and pop in a new one.
I chose that for a scenario, really there are 100 zillion different scenarios to choose from.
The point I'm trying to make is that for some of us there is a time and place for capacity.
I will reiterate though, that anyone who tells you that you need this or that, just plain sucks.
Go with what your good at and roll with it! But remember, everyone is entitled to their own opinion.
Wow, ended up spitting out more than what I meant to say...
I hear ya on some things. Like you said, no it shouldn't be a selling point. Capacity can be preference. When I think of a semi I do not think of capacity. Also I agree that anybody that tells you that you should "get this because of this" is just an ignorant person. For the most part we can get what we want and that's a beautiful part of our freedom (unless Hillary is elected president). So shoot what you want, carry what you want, just enjoy. Unfortunately, there are ignorant people everywhere. Everyone is gonna want the latest and greatest. Hell, look at the smart phone phase the world is going through. If I hear one more person say I need to get a stupid iPhone, well, you get the point. I don't think I'll ever buy a wheelgun, but not because I think there's anything wrong with them, just cause there not for me.
But also, I disagree with capacity for SD. I've been shooting a long time. And I had a lot of practice. But unfortunately my mind tends to think of the worst case scenario. Call me paranoid! While some may be thinking one wigged out meth head will break into there house and do god knows what, I'm always thinking there's gonna be two or three wigged out math heads breaking in. You can under go a lot of training but in that heat of the moment, I still would want more than 6 rounds. You can call me a bad shot or whatever else, but in the heat of the moment with that much adrenaline, tunnel vision, and for some, probably irrational thinking, I'm gonna do whatever it takes to keep my family alive. And that for me means not having to reload after (if it came to it) 14 or whatever rounds. With that said, I'm not saying some cant reload a wheelie faster than I can drop a mag and pop in a new one.
I chose that for a scenario, really there are 100 zillion different scenarios to choose from.
The point I'm trying to make is that for some of us there is a time and place for capacity.
I will reiterate though, that anyone who tells you that you need this or that, just plain sucks.
Go with what your good at and roll with it! But remember, everyone is entitled to their own opinion.
Wow, ended up spitting out more than what I meant to say...
Model12Win
Moderator
Revolver were used since well before the Civil War all the way until the 1990s by Law Enforcement as THE primary weapon. Even today in some agencies and orginizations, revolvers are still used (corrections, security guards at the Smithsonian, summer volunteer police deputies, armorer car drivers, etc.) and are still very effective weapons.
Training is important with the revolver. That's true of any weapon, but the revolver takes a special discipline and skill set to reload quickly under stress and to make good hits on target with the rounds in your cylinder. Although they have been eclipsed by the advent of reliable semi-auto pistols with more capacity, revolvers still have the unquestionable edge in reliability and in many cases accuracy and stopping power.
I think if revolvers weren't effective for personal defense, they wouldn't have been used professionally for so long even up until today. People like Clint Smith still tout the revolver, and it was a favorite of the old masters such as Elmer Kieth and Bill Jordan even well into the "age of the auto".
OP: Carry your revolver with confidence. Train with it, spend time with it, know it as the tool and weapon that it is. I personally feel 100% confident that my Ruger GP100, S&W 642, and Charter Arms Bulldog will see me through almost any defensive encounter imaginable.
I too, am a revolver man.
Training is important with the revolver. That's true of any weapon, but the revolver takes a special discipline and skill set to reload quickly under stress and to make good hits on target with the rounds in your cylinder. Although they have been eclipsed by the advent of reliable semi-auto pistols with more capacity, revolvers still have the unquestionable edge in reliability and in many cases accuracy and stopping power.
I think if revolvers weren't effective for personal defense, they wouldn't have been used professionally for so long even up until today. People like Clint Smith still tout the revolver, and it was a favorite of the old masters such as Elmer Kieth and Bill Jordan even well into the "age of the auto".
OP: Carry your revolver with confidence. Train with it, spend time with it, know it as the tool and weapon that it is. I personally feel 100% confident that my Ruger GP100, S&W 642, and Charter Arms Bulldog will see me through almost any defensive encounter imaginable.
I too, am a revolver man.
A pause for the COZ
New member
Hey there is even still a French Special operations unit that still uses 357 magnum revolvers as their main weapon.
Any way Carry what you want tell them if they dont like it to go eat a (#$%$)
Apparently I can not say that.
Any way Carry what you want tell them if they dont like it to go eat a (#$%$)
Apparently I can not say that.
In the revolver vs. auto discussions, one thing that has propelled all the talk of needing an auto is that most of the gun games today are all designed around courses of fire involving a lot of rounds. The games are more fun that way.
Even though IDPA is revolver friendly---sort of/maybe/kind of---the auto really is the way to go. And gosh, think of IPSC and all the high firepower scenarios that one mostly sees. And all the lightning speed reloads that are required.
I suspect a lot of police training mimics the gun games.
Besides, the auto from a commercial point of view is better for the after market crowd who manufacture so much stuff. When Glock came out, I don't think many of us expected all the after market stuff that could be added to the Glock or how much "custom" work could be done to it. Selling point to the police was how simple the Glock was and how it was good to go as is.
A lot of today's hoopla over autos has to do with the "customization" game and after market doodads that are available. The gunzines are full of all that stuff.
And of course S&W fell into the abyss when it looked like round limitations might be a reality. Hence the revolvers with 7, 8 and 9 shots. Often bulky but oh the extra fire power.
But in forgetting about being SWAT, soldier and all the gun games then the revolver makes perfectly good sense today as it did decades ago.
Even though IDPA is revolver friendly---sort of/maybe/kind of---the auto really is the way to go. And gosh, think of IPSC and all the high firepower scenarios that one mostly sees. And all the lightning speed reloads that are required.
I suspect a lot of police training mimics the gun games.
Besides, the auto from a commercial point of view is better for the after market crowd who manufacture so much stuff. When Glock came out, I don't think many of us expected all the after market stuff that could be added to the Glock or how much "custom" work could be done to it. Selling point to the police was how simple the Glock was and how it was good to go as is.
A lot of today's hoopla over autos has to do with the "customization" game and after market doodads that are available. The gunzines are full of all that stuff.
And of course S&W fell into the abyss when it looked like round limitations might be a reality. Hence the revolvers with 7, 8 and 9 shots. Often bulky but oh the extra fire power.
But in forgetting about being SWAT, soldier and all the gun games then the revolver makes perfectly good sense today as it did decades ago.
Mike Irwin
Staff
If you're not carrying a geewhiz that holds 13+1 AND at least 4 spare magazines...
You're suicidal and don't care about life.
Or so I've been told over the years...
You're suicidal and don't care about life.
Or so I've been told over the years...
I started off carrying a XD-9. You know what? Those big magazines are HEAVY. That went on down the road quickly.
Now I carry a J-frame airweight, and a couple of speed strips. The only reason I carry the speed strips is I've got them. Shoot, I even carry aluminum case ammo to save weight. I got enough of my own to lug around without adding to it.
Now, if someone else wants to lug around a box or so of ammo, or an anvil for that matter, it's ok with me.
Now I carry a J-frame airweight, and a couple of speed strips. The only reason I carry the speed strips is I've got them. Shoot, I even carry aluminum case ammo to save weight. I got enough of my own to lug around without adding to it.
Now, if someone else wants to lug around a box or so of ammo, or an anvil for that matter, it's ok with me.
OldMarksman
Staff
Posted by abowlieb:
I would not expect to be able to reload once until after the event is over.
As a matter of fact, I do not expect anyone to come after me.
By the way, if one is attacked, all indications are that one will face two or more assailants.
And that brings up a very important point. Enroll in a good defensive handgun shooting course. See how you do with your handgun. You will find that is is nothing like "target practice".
Then try some FoF training with simunitions, or perhaps a laser training facility with the gun "loaded" with various numbers of "rounds".
Either should give you some idea of how often your six rounds will suffice (you should certainly expect them to get you to safety sometimes), except that with laser training, any shot counties as a stop, and that is rather unrealistic.
In one of the Personal Defense Network premium videos (I do recommend subscribing), you can watch a well known trainer engage two armed robbers in a very sort scan of time--seconds, in fact--in a laser simulator at a Gander Mountain Academy. He ended up firing nine or ten shots very quickly--quickly enough, as it turned out, but he did miss with some of them. And again, each "hit" counted as a stop.
After all of that, decide for yourself.
That would probably be true--if you had any chance at all of reloading twice during a defensive encounter.
I would not expect to be able to reload once until after the event is over.
No.
As a matter of fact, I do not expect anyone to come after me.
I have absolutely no idea. I may, or I may not. That will be determined by whether I have to shoot in the first place; whether a psychological stop occurs, or if is necessary to effect a physical stop; and how many rounds I have to fire to hit something vital that will effect that physical stop.
By the way, if one is attacked, all indications are that one will face two or more assailants.
Not those who have availed themselves of any training.
And that brings up a very important point. Enroll in a good defensive handgun shooting course. See how you do with your handgun. You will find that is is nothing like "target practice".
Then try some FoF training with simunitions, or perhaps a laser training facility with the gun "loaded" with various numbers of "rounds".
Either should give you some idea of how often your six rounds will suffice (you should certainly expect them to get you to safety sometimes), except that with laser training, any shot counties as a stop, and that is rather unrealistic.
In one of the Personal Defense Network premium videos (I do recommend subscribing), you can watch a well known trainer engage two armed robbers in a very sort scan of time--seconds, in fact--in a laser simulator at a Gander Mountain Academy. He ended up firing nine or ten shots very quickly--quickly enough, as it turned out, but he did miss with some of them. And again, each "hit" counted as a stop.
After all of that, decide for yourself.
Six rounds versus thirty is a false dichotomy. There is nothing wrong with carrying a revolver if that is what you are comfortable with. I used to carry a S&W 642 every day but I switched to a Glock 26 a few years back. My reasoning went like this: In real shootings, including but not limited to police-involved shooting, there are a lot of misses; a hit rate of 20% was being bandied about back when I was making my decision. And everyone outside of Hollywood thinks that handgun rounds are less than stellar stoppers, to the extent that you would be hard pressed to find a trainer that doesn't advocate double- and triple taps. So, combining those two figures means that a five-shot revolver has enough ammunition to deal with one attacker if everything stays at the center of the averages. If you have more than one attacker, or if you miss one too many times, or if your single attacker is not incapacitated by two shots, or absolutely anything else is in the bottom half of the field from which the averages arise, you don't have enough gun.
OP, I am not making fun of your or anyone else's choice of a revolver in saying this; rather, I am explaining my choice in response to your derision of folks who choose pistols over revolvers. It wasn't paranoia that made me make my choice - it was math.
OP, I am not making fun of your or anyone else's choice of a revolver in saying this; rather, I am explaining my choice in response to your derision of folks who choose pistols over revolvers. It wasn't paranoia that made me make my choice - it was math.
OldMarksman
Staff
abowlieb, I really do recommend taking a good training course; look into the I.C.E PDN Tour, Tom Givens who also goes on the road, a session with Massad Ayoob, Mike Seeklander....
If you are close to a Gander Mountain Academy, look into what they have, including their simulation facility.
Claude Werner recently said that one of the things about people who have not had training is that they do not know what they do not know. Heck, that's really true or all of us, and we all start out that way to a very great extent.
I was very lucky to have a friend who had taken a two day Advanced Defensive Pistol Shooting Course course recommend it several years ago. Fortunately for me, it had been pared down to one day. And it was local.
I was AMAZED at how it differed from target shooting. We fired fast at close targets (steel), and that was a lot different from the "target practice" I had been doing. I later attended the I. C. E. PDN course called Combat Focus Shooting. At Gander Mountain Academies, it is called Dynamic Focus Shooting.
If you are not yet ready for any of that, there is something you can do that can be an eye opener. Watch some recordings of the Outdoor Channel's The Best Defense episodes. They have a lot of tips about how to avoid being mugged, robbed, stabbed, shot, car-jacked, kidnapped, etc. As an aside, one little thing to look for is how many shots (usually four or five) Mike Seeklander puts into an attacker, and how quickly (usually about a second). Again, that should be an eye opener.
Some I. C. E. PDN videos would be worth your time,too.
I hope you find this helpful.
If you are close to a Gander Mountain Academy, look into what they have, including their simulation facility.
Claude Werner recently said that one of the things about people who have not had training is that they do not know what they do not know. Heck, that's really true or all of us, and we all start out that way to a very great extent.
I was very lucky to have a friend who had taken a two day Advanced Defensive Pistol Shooting Course course recommend it several years ago. Fortunately for me, it had been pared down to one day. And it was local.
I was AMAZED at how it differed from target shooting. We fired fast at close targets (steel), and that was a lot different from the "target practice" I had been doing. I later attended the I. C. E. PDN course called Combat Focus Shooting. At Gander Mountain Academies, it is called Dynamic Focus Shooting.
If you are not yet ready for any of that, there is something you can do that can be an eye opener. Watch some recordings of the Outdoor Channel's The Best Defense episodes. They have a lot of tips about how to avoid being mugged, robbed, stabbed, shot, car-jacked, kidnapped, etc. As an aside, one little thing to look for is how many shots (usually four or five) Mike Seeklander puts into an attacker, and how quickly (usually about a second). Again, that should be an eye opener.
Some I. C. E. PDN videos would be worth your time,too.
I hope you find this helpful.
cliffhangernlv
New member
The two times I had to fire I used 3 rounds and 2 rounds. Luckily I didn't have to fight the 3rd Army, just one guy each time. Used a Walther PP .380 the first time. A SW 357 the second.
If you want more ammo, great. If you don't, also great.
If you want more ammo, great. If you don't, also great.
Limnophile
New member
Because that advantage was substantial, as it remains so today.
Bureaucracies are notoriously slow to change. Also, most people are trained to think deterministically rather than stochastically in the face of uncertainty, an example of which is the question, "How many rounds are needed to stop a random bad guy in a random shooting incident?" A great book on the subject is The Flaw of Averages: Why We Underestimate Risk in the Face of Uncertainty -- http://flawofaverages.com/.
Carrying a handgun is all about comfort; it provides no guarantees.
If a reasonable and prudent citizen draws his weapon and starts firing the last concern on his mind will be legal bills and damages. At that point it is almost certainly a matter of life and death. Being alive and impoverished beats being dead and rich.
The FBI reports their agents miss their targets 70-to-80% of the time during shootouts with bad guys. When I was shopping for my first handguns in the early '80s, when almost all LEOs carried revolvers, the reported law enforcement gunfight miss rate was 5 out of 6, ie, 83%. With hit rates of 17-to-30%, one doesn't need to be a statistician to realize that a 6-shot revolver is a suboptimal sidearm.
Cheapshooter
New member
abowlieb, all technical, and philosophical reasons to get a semi-auto aside, I think the peer pressure you are under would be a great excuse to buy a new gun. A semi-auto to fit their approval. Heck, that's a more sound excuse than several I've used in the past. Besides, you don't have to actually carry it. It's supposed to be concealed, and you don't have to let your buddies know you are still carrying you beloved wheel gun. Just whip out the auto at the rang for some shooting fun, and be in with all the "big kids"! 
g.willikers
New member
Revolver folks just naturally like going around in circles. 
They like short track auto racing, too.
They's funny that way.
They like short track auto racing, too.
They's funny that way.
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