Still vote for Bush?
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Yes; despite some obvious Bush Administration performance inadequacies – none nearly as bad as the liberal, elitist media suggests – Kerry simply could not clear the “character hurdle”. In my value system, if a candidate fails that initial and essential test, his policy positions and documented record are not even subject to review and assessment.
Marko Kloos
Inactive
I think it's virtually impossible to assess a person's character via second-hand, hearsay information...especially when everything you know about that person has been either carefully laundered by one spin machine, or mangled by another.
Therefore, it seems more wise to me assess the value of a candidate based on his philosophies, and gauge his performance once in office by how he adheres to them.
Therefore, it seems more wise to me assess the value of a candidate based on his philosophies, and gauge his performance once in office by how he adheres to them.
I voted for the lesser of the evils. That is about all we can do these days. You don't get to political office by having values, morals, and convictions. You get there by kissing the right butts. The person who is willing to do the right thing regardless of prevailing winds, is not going to be popular.
Marko,
I have developed a good deal of esteem for you through TFL; accordingly, this response is conveyed with my overall respect. However, in this case, you simply could not be more wrong.
Kerry’s Vietnam record – both as an active Naval officer and in the aftermath of the war – demonstrates a profound lack of integrity, ethics, patriotism, and concern for his brothers-in-arms (which is any officer’s principal responsibility, along with mission accomplishment).
My position on these matters absolutely is NOT media-influenced. Therefore, your assessment that “it's virtually impossible to assess a person's character via second-hand, hearsay information...especially when everything you know about that person has been either carefully laundered by one spin machine, or mangled by another” is both inapplicable and incorrect. In fact, it is also personally offensive.
I served as a Naval officer simultaneously with Kerry, I was commissioned through the same program, I was in the Pacific and in Vietnam at the same time, and I shared most of the same duties, responsibilities, and accountability. Further, I have painstakingly analyzed the original source documents – especially his Officer’s Fitness Reports, where my intimate knowledge based on over two decades commissioned experience allows me to perceive things the average, intelligent reader would not understand – that substantiate his inferior character and the mediocrity of his service. In addition, I have researched his post-war record, especially including his Congressional testimony, his anti-war leadership and participation demonstrations, and his illegal personal-diplomacy with North Vietnamese officials in Paris.
Due to the aforecited, I have concluded that Kerry is dishonest, immoral (perhaps amoral), self-serving, opportunistic, self-glorifying, and utterly egocentric. These are the specific “character hurdles” I alluded to in my prior post, and John Kerry’s documented ethical and performance record – certainly not media reports or political “spin” – compelled me to vote for Bush.
With respect, I believe you own me an apology for your insulting remarks that suggest my evaluations and decisions were based on “hearsay information” where “everything you know about that person has been either carefully laundered by one spin machine, or mangled by another”. My conclusions are not founded on unconfirmed information and my determinations do not result from any “spin machine”. You, sir, in this instance, are FAR out-of-line.
I have developed a good deal of esteem for you through TFL; accordingly, this response is conveyed with my overall respect. However, in this case, you simply could not be more wrong.
Kerry’s Vietnam record – both as an active Naval officer and in the aftermath of the war – demonstrates a profound lack of integrity, ethics, patriotism, and concern for his brothers-in-arms (which is any officer’s principal responsibility, along with mission accomplishment).
My position on these matters absolutely is NOT media-influenced. Therefore, your assessment that “it's virtually impossible to assess a person's character via second-hand, hearsay information...especially when everything you know about that person has been either carefully laundered by one spin machine, or mangled by another” is both inapplicable and incorrect. In fact, it is also personally offensive.
I served as a Naval officer simultaneously with Kerry, I was commissioned through the same program, I was in the Pacific and in Vietnam at the same time, and I shared most of the same duties, responsibilities, and accountability. Further, I have painstakingly analyzed the original source documents – especially his Officer’s Fitness Reports, where my intimate knowledge based on over two decades commissioned experience allows me to perceive things the average, intelligent reader would not understand – that substantiate his inferior character and the mediocrity of his service. In addition, I have researched his post-war record, especially including his Congressional testimony, his anti-war leadership and participation demonstrations, and his illegal personal-diplomacy with North Vietnamese officials in Paris.
Due to the aforecited, I have concluded that Kerry is dishonest, immoral (perhaps amoral), self-serving, opportunistic, self-glorifying, and utterly egocentric. These are the specific “character hurdles” I alluded to in my prior post, and John Kerry’s documented ethical and performance record – certainly not media reports or political “spin” – compelled me to vote for Bush.
With respect, I believe you own me an apology for your insulting remarks that suggest my evaluations and decisions were based on “hearsay information” where “everything you know about that person has been either carefully laundered by one spin machine, or mangled by another”. My conclusions are not founded on unconfirmed information and my determinations do not result from any “spin machine”. You, sir, in this instance, are FAR out-of-line.
RWK.....tell you what
bring up all the character refrences made by the swiftpropaganda veterans and lets see what is real and what is not real.
There are some other Naval Veterans that disagree with you that were in additon to serving simultaneously with Kerry were serving in the same unit and location.
if it isnt based on your direct observation of Kerry then it is heresay and second hand information........or opinion.
If you are basing you opinion on fitness evaluations......we both know that these are not the best indicators.
bring up all the character refrences made by the swiftpropaganda veterans and lets see what is real and what is not real.
There are some other Naval Veterans that disagree with you that were in additon to serving simultaneously with Kerry were serving in the same unit and location.
if it isnt based on your direct observation of Kerry then it is heresay and second hand information........or opinion.
If you are basing you opinion on fitness evaluations......we both know that these are not the best indicators.
I believe the swift boat vets.
I also believe that had Kerry been elected, not only would the AWB have been made permenant, but extended to just about all semi-auto firearms. There wouldn't be no liability protection for firearm manufacturers either. An anti-RKBA Supreme Court nominee would be before the Senate, and doubtlessly get confirmed.
So yes, I voted for Bush, and still would vote for him.
I also believe that had Kerry been elected, not only would the AWB have been made permenant, but extended to just about all semi-auto firearms. There wouldn't be no liability protection for firearm manufacturers either. An anti-RKBA Supreme Court nominee would be before the Senate, and doubtlessly get confirmed.
So yes, I voted for Bush, and still would vote for him.
Marko Kloos
Inactive
RWK,
my post describes my personal attitude towards judging someone's fitness for a given elected office. It was not directed at anyone in particular, nor did it concern any specific candidate...although I was thinking more of President Bush than Kerry when I wrote it, since I was analyzing my personal reason for not voting for the man in the first place. (I didn't vote for Kerry, either.)
I have no issue with your opinion of John Kerry, how you acquired that opinion, or wether it's a valid one. My post outlined my personal opinion on how to gauge the viability of a candidate, for myself alone. How you decide for whom to vote is your business alone. Don't feel addressed just because my post came after yours.
As such, I do not believe I owe you, or anyone else, an apology for holding that opinion.
my post describes my personal attitude towards judging someone's fitness for a given elected office. It was not directed at anyone in particular, nor did it concern any specific candidate...although I was thinking more of President Bush than Kerry when I wrote it, since I was analyzing my personal reason for not voting for the man in the first place. (I didn't vote for Kerry, either.)
I have no issue with your opinion of John Kerry, how you acquired that opinion, or wether it's a valid one. My post outlined my personal opinion on how to gauge the viability of a candidate, for myself alone. How you decide for whom to vote is your business alone. Don't feel addressed just because my post came after yours.
As such, I do not believe I owe you, or anyone else, an apology for holding that opinion.
Yep, although I don't think that would have been his #1 thing to do as soon as he took ofice, like some do.
I'll vote third party as soon as someone gets a competent campaign together. But, I fear even with a third party, I'm stil going to be voting the lesser of three evils.
I watched an episode of South Park last night. They had to vote between a giant dousche(sp?) and a turd sandwich. One of the kids did not want to vote but in the end realized it is always between a giant doushce and a turd sandwich. Don't know if that is relavant but it made me smile and think about the choices you older folk had between Nixon/Goldwater.
Rangefinder
New member
I can't say I'm entirely pleased with Bush and his performance, but I was completely disgusted with Kerry from the first time I saw him debate. That whiny little finger-pointer as a president? I'd rather chew my own foot off. Personally, I wish Jesse Ventura woulda stepped into the running... LOL At the very least I like his views on taxes AND gun control.
Marko . . .
Obviously, I respect your -- or anyone else's -- right to form opinions as they feel is appropriate. With this said, I would like to point out:
a) Your post immediately followed mine; you have indicated that was purely coincidental, and I accept your statement.
b) My post was entirely focused on Kerry's character and my inability to consider his candidacy due to his profound ethical flaws; your post began with the words, "I think it's virtually impossible to assess a person's character ".
That is an amazing correlation and I am sure you can easily understand why I concluded that the two posts were directly related.
Obviously, I respect your -- or anyone else's -- right to form opinions as they feel is appropriate. With this said, I would like to point out:
a) Your post immediately followed mine; you have indicated that was purely coincidental, and I accept your statement.
b) My post was entirely focused on Kerry's character and my inability to consider his candidacy due to his profound ethical flaws; your post began with the words, "I think it's virtually impossible to assess a person's character ".
That is an amazing correlation and I am sure you can easily understand why I concluded that the two posts were directly related.
Eghad . . .
Actually, I believe they are a super indicator, particularly over a reasonable number of years, and with a sizable number of Officer’s Fitness Reports. The fact is, commanders agonize over every word in each FitRep -- and especially over the strict numerical ranking (first to last) of every officer within his peer group -- because these documents are incredibly critical to the officer’s future. Further, since officers receive new assignments, have new commanding officers, and are transferred to new commands with frequency, it is normal for a junior officer to receive two, three, or even four FitReps annually, written by at least two separate commanders. This means that, over time, a consensus regarding the individual officer’s professional performance, character, potential, leadership abilities, and cognitive capabilities is developed. This aggregate assessment is amazingly accurate, because it represents the collective evaluation of several -- or even many -- “reporting seniors”, over a considerable number of years and while the officer was assigned to a variety of duties at several different commands.
I do not claim that the Enlisted Evaluation system is as thorough or that the same effort is devoted to it, but I can assure you with certainty that Navy officers’ Fitness Reports are outstanding performance documentation.
Actually, I believe they are a super indicator, particularly over a reasonable number of years, and with a sizable number of Officer’s Fitness Reports. The fact is, commanders agonize over every word in each FitRep -- and especially over the strict numerical ranking (first to last) of every officer within his peer group -- because these documents are incredibly critical to the officer’s future. Further, since officers receive new assignments, have new commanding officers, and are transferred to new commands with frequency, it is normal for a junior officer to receive two, three, or even four FitReps annually, written by at least two separate commanders. This means that, over time, a consensus regarding the individual officer’s professional performance, character, potential, leadership abilities, and cognitive capabilities is developed. This aggregate assessment is amazingly accurate, because it represents the collective evaluation of several -- or even many -- “reporting seniors”, over a considerable number of years and while the officer was assigned to a variety of duties at several different commands.
I do not claim that the Enlisted Evaluation system is as thorough or that the same effort is devoted to it, but I can assure you with certainty that Navy officers’ Fitness Reports are outstanding performance documentation.
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