Steel core flew over my head

M

Mosin-Marauder

New member
A bit shook up. But I felt I needed to make this post.
Was shooting my Mosin after school today at a steel gong using steel core surplus. I know this has worked for other people but I must be the unlucky one. First shot hit the gong with an authoritative thwack, and the core came right back over my head with a wizz. I unloaded the gun and walked over to see it cratered a big half inch stretch of the gong. I'm not going to be shooting steel core on steel targets anymore, for fear of more accurate steel cores. Just thought Id post this so no one else makes this mistake.I know I sound like a bit of a wuss, but it was kinda scary. Has this happened to anyone else? Anyway, thanks for reading.
 
Steel jacketed 'bimetal' bullets can do real damage on steel targets, even AR500. I had to sift all the green tips out of my 223 reloads once I found out a few had filtered into the mix.

Now you know!
 
What distance were you shooting at? My 2 local ranges don't allow steel targets less than 100 yards for center fire and 50 yards for rimfire. I have a few small dimples and share my targets all the time. My target also swings so the bullets will be deflected mostly down. I shoot lots of steel core spam can stuff and wolf 7.62 x 39 at mine
 
That cratering is caused by the heat dump resulting from the kinetic energy of the bullet being converted to heat when the bullet is stopped suddenly. It is the way AP bullets work; the bullet stops, its kinetic energy is changed to heat, softening the steel plate, and the AP core goes through the semi-molten metal. Except in that case, the plate was a bit too thick and the core turned around in the crater and came back.

Jim
 
Not to mention now that crater can spit lead back like freeway u-turn every time it's hit in it or on the rim. I made the mistake of cratering a steel target then shooting at it with handguns/lead bullets. I got peppered a few times before I decided the target was scrap.
 
Wow, your lucky Mo. how do you have you gong mounted, rigid or swinging. If the gong is to rigid I can see that happening.
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I just hope my dad doesn't chew me out for messing up his gong :eek:. We can still use the back side though.

It's 1/2 thick carbon steel hanging from a chain . It doesn't move too much when it's hit. But boy it moved when that LPS hit it!
 
I shot my K-31 reloads at it the other day and it just chipped the paint a little, same with. 22LR. I think once I start reloading for 7.62x54R I will be able to shoot it with Soft points or hollow points. Im going to leave the Steel Core surplus to paper punching and use with my self healing ball target.
 
Buy some proper AR500 armor plate. Here is one source, there are lots: http://www.ar500-targets.com/AR500-Square-Targets-s/1817.htm

I have hammered AR500 at 100 yards without making a mark on it with steel core 7.62x54R, but cratered the hell out of it with a .243 with varmint bullets.

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Which reminds me, I need to turn that plate around.
 

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I have been at metallic silhouette handgun matches and if it fairly common to get back splatter from the targets.

At Aberdeen Proving Ground in testing we could not shoot plate as less than 200 yards except on the plate range where it was set up that nothing came back and if it did there was no one there to get hit as the firers are in another room.
 
... or just don't shoot steel core bullets at your steel targets...

even if you are far enough back that you're not getting hit with the cores, they are going somewhere, & are a hazard when in flight...

btw... you can solid mount your plates angled downward, but if you are going to hang your plates, the weight of the plate should be such, that the bullet makes it swing enough to angle it down... if the plate is too heavy, & doesn't swing at all, you could be eating those steel cores, lead, or jacket material
 
I still shoot steel in pistol matches, but other than that I rarely shoot it. I got over the whole reactive target obsession years ago. Getting hit by enough pieces of lead did it for me. I guess what finally did me in was getting shot in the arm with a piece of rickochet buckshot during SWAT training. I knew it was a stupid idea to shoot steel with buckshot, but neither was I the one running the range nor was I the one shooting the buckshot. They banned buckshot on the range immediately after this incident. Thankfully it was winter and I had enough heavy clothes on that it did not penetrate deep, but it hurt awful.
 
steel targets are always a bit of a hazard. I've been hit by ricochets, it's not fun, the facial wounds healed well but I still have a pretty nasty scar on my right hand which was luckily up and absorbed most of the impact before the bullet struck me in the chin. probably should have gotten a couple stitches but didn't. that was with a bonded lead core plastic tipped bullet, a steel core would have likely required some reconstructive surgery. I now know not to set them closer than 100 yards. depending on the caliber even soft tip lead core can do some impressive dimpling. I have a 3/4 inch steel "tipper" target which I hit with a 300 weatherby factory hunting load at 100 yards, the bullet nearly penetrated it, about 5/8s or so just barely being deflected before making it through, on the same target I've hit it with a 30-06 penetrator round from an M1 garand, that bullet actually poked through the back of the target but got wedged just before completely clearing it. I loaded up some black tip into weatherby casings but I have yet to find a target worthy of testing them on:D

moral of the story, you get enough weight and velocity, any bullet will dimple a steel target and sometimes richochets are unavoidable. set them up so they can be deflected either up and over or down into the dirt and whenever possible, don't use ammo designed for punching through steel in the first place.
 
Try getting smacked right in the mouth with a very substantial chunk of lead coming back from a falling plate.

Happened to me a few years ago at a shoot.

Hit me right over my lower left eye tooth, so hard that I thought for sure it broke the tooth.

I was cut both inside the mouth and just below the lip. Neither was serious, but it was, as you said, scary and left me sore for a few days.

Can't remember if a friend standing next to me said he could hear the "whap" when it hit me, but he certainly heard me curse!
 
I've been pelted by so much lead shot from the tip over targets at the CAS range, that I swear my forehead is dimpled :o

I've gotten to where I won't use a tip over target, except during matches... on my home practice range, I use a large tin can in a painted square & getting a "good hit" requires knocking the can out of the square...

I think steel is very safe to shoot, only when the surface is flat, & angled downward...

the steel plates on my personal range were copied from the clubs current CAS design, they still ring, but are angled downward, & I use the cans listed above for the shot gun portion... I only shoot lead at my steel targets, which are 1/2" AR-500
 
Steel on steel bounces. It doesn't deform and dump energy as well as it should, it retains it's energy and rebounds. a lead bullet or core will strike a hard target, deform, and with nearly all of its energy depleted, drop or bounce weakly away. There are exceptional moments when fragments will bounce, or even an entire bullet may bounce, but generally speaking, a lead bullet will not rebound straight back, but a steel bullet is prone to do so. A BB shot at a stop sign is almost certain to rebound at a predictable angle.

The simplest solution to this is to tilt the gong. If a log is placed under it, tilting it downward by 30 degrees or so, lead will almost certainly be deflected downwards. Steel may be deflected downwards, but even so, it's still not a given thing that a steel core fired at a diagonal surface will deflect instead of striking an abnormal surface and rebounding back.

This is essentially the way many indoor ranges are built. A downward deflection plate ending in a sand pit or other trap. I've never been to an indoor range that allowed steel cores. The plates on our home range here were approximately a whole inch thick. That cost a fortune, even in the fifties when they were made. It was the retired police practice range. The police closed and sold it, moving to outdoor training.
 
While I do not suggest this will eliminate all problems,

A buddy and I decided to make up some steel dingers in the 70's.

We saw the potential problem,and designed the targets to hang at a 10 to 15 deg angle,the top (12 oclock) being leaned toward the shooter.The hangers are welded to the back of the target ,near the top,and they project the hanging point out a ways.

This banks the ricochet into the ground.

I cannot say it would prevent steel cores skipping back,but with lead bullets we have had no problems.

We are thankful you did not get hurt.You could put your eye out!!(you do were eye protection,don't you?)
 
That cratering is caused by the heat dump resulting from the kinetic energy of the bullet being converted to heat when the bullet is stopped suddenly. It is the way AP bullets work; the bullet stops, its kinetic energy is changed to heat, softening the steel plate, and the AP core goes through the semi-molten metal. Except in that case, the plate was a bit too thick and the core turned around in the crater and came back.
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I don't think that's correct. The steel deforms on impact, just as it would with a strike from a cold chisel. 1500 ft pounds from a .223 round only generates a much heat as a nightlight bulb. Even squeezed into a very small segment of steel in an instant of time, that's not enough energy to cause melting and flow of a steel plate. It's physical deformation under pressure and impact that causes the flow.

What is really happening is simply the steel deforming under high energy, high velocity impact that deforms the stuff and shoves it around. it starts with just a bounce, then a dimple, then actual deformation, then deformation and flow, and as you keep adding energy to the projectile, yes, by the time you reach maybe hundreds of thousands of foot pounds, as long as the energy is all expended in a tightly focused area, it will generate enough heat upon deformation to melt or fuse steel.

The 700 ne impacts with 12,000 joules. Converted entirely to heat, not taking deformation or other energy expended, this releases energy approximately equal to what it would take to warm a quart of water by 1 degree centigrade.
 
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