Starting a collection of Cold War pistols.

J

Justin

New member
Hey all,

I'm considering starting a collection of Eastern Bloc pistols from the Cold War era.
I've found that a lot of these pistols can be had for reasonable prices, and I think it would be a rather unique collection to have, as opposed to all the people out there collection WWII stuff.
To this end, I've started to do some research, but I figured I'd fly the idea past a few of you seasoned TFL'ers to see what you think.
To that end, I've decided to lay a couple of fairly basic (if not flexible) ground rules for the collection.

1.) I'd start with pistols that were manufactured after the end of WWII, and going until probably the late 1970's, early 1980's. However I plan to be more heavy-handed in collection stuff from about 1950-1970 or so.

2.)I want to stick with mostly Eastern Bloc stuff. Russian, East German, Czech. Basically if they were a member of the Warsaw pact, I'm interested.

3.)I have kind of an interest in any pistol firing the 7.62x25mm Tokarev or 9x18mm Makarov rounds.

To that end, I've compiled a list of pistols that I am interested in collecting, so with no further adieu...

<B>The List</B>

1.) Russian-made TT-33
2.) Makarov (Russian, Bulgarian, East German, and maybe Chinese.)
3.)Czech-made CZ-52
4.)PA-63 (not sure of country of origin.)
5.)Russian-made Stechkin. (just kidding. Way out of my price range, I'm sure.)

That's it for now. I'm interested in hearing what anyone has to say.
 
Ah, yes, the CZ 75. I've heard a lot of good things about those pistols. You are right, it should be added, although that purchase might be a ways off.
 
I sorta-kinda almost like your idea! I've also played around with getting the Warsaw Pact guns. Getting the different Maks would be interesting. You don't see many Russian (original milsurp) or Chinese Maks around. Add the CZ 50 and CZ 70 to your list. The CZ 50, CZ 52, and CZ 70 guns would be $140 and lower for each gun. I don't see many T33s around. I've been meaning to pick one up, but they are scarce. The Chinese also made the T33 - careful, there are Chinese T33s that are commercial guns made in 9mm. I'm guessing that the original Chinese T33s are in 7.62 X 25, right? Good post, I really needed another type of gun to collect! <BG>
 
Gino,
It would appear that I still have quite a bit to learn on this topic. I don't believe that I'm familiar with the CZ 50 or the CZ 70.

As for the TT 33, yeah, they are made to fire the 7.62X25mm round. However, I don't know if it is capable of handling some of the hotter loads that were manufactured for the CZ-52.

As for needing another type of gun to collect, well, I'm glad to see that I'm not the only one out there interestested in firearms of this era. Besides, guns are sort of like really expensive potato chips. Ya can't have just one. ;)
 
It's a great idea, not only for the historical and coolness factors, but also potentially as an investment.

Many of the cold war pistols can be had for relatively litle money, as you said. Contrast this to WW II-era hardware. Now, 40 years ago you could get a Luger or P-38 for not all that much money. Try to find a cheap one now in good condition. I think that will happen to the cold war pistols eventually. Especially if imports tighten up more b/c of stricter laws.
 
WWII hardware was sort of the seed for this whole idea. I had looked at (and drooled over) any number of German P38's, Lugers, Namboos, and 1911's. Pretty much all of them were way out of my price range.

I don't know if these Cold War era peices will ever be sought after collector's items or not, after all they were manufactured by the millions. (Good old Soviet industry ;) )

But at any rate, I thought it would at least be something a bit off the beaten path, and hopefully less costly.
Plus, I've shot the CZ 52, and dang if it isn't a sweet shooting heater! (Needs a trigger job tho.)
In addition, everyone who has a Makarov seems to absolutely adore the little buggers.
I figure I can't go to far wrong if I decide to collect from this time period.
 
Don't forget the Nagant revolver. Strictly speaking it predates the Cold War era, but it has a sinister Slavic
appearance, it's cheap, and has all kinds of nasty NKVD
execution weapon associations. You most likely won't shoot
it much but it would make an interesting historical base
to any collection of Communist handguns.
 
Commygun,

I've heard of the Nagant revolver. They're supposed to be fairly interesting in the way that they operate.

Has anyone had a chance to shoot one of these, and if so, what were your thoughts?

I also understand that you can get a .32 acp conversion cylinder for them. How do these work?


By the way, what's the availability of Russian TT-33's. I was under the impression that they were fairly available, but some things I've read recently seem to point away from that.
Anyone know what the going rate is for a TT-33?
 
George,

I'm not familiar with the Colt Woodsman. What is it? revolver, auto loader?
I'm assuming that it was used by the west, but by who?
If it's a .22 with a silencer it sounds like it would have been a real covert action type of gun.
 
I don't think the CZ-75 really qualifies -- at least in the spirit of collecting you imply (i.e., the Soviet Bloc from the Cold War). These guns are much later in design and were never really used by the Soviet Bloc militaries. The only ones you're likely to find, nowadays, are new ones made for the Czech Republic's military, police, and for export. Great guns, though.

The East German Makarov should be your first pick, followed by -- if you can find one (be prepared to pay) a 10-round Soviet Makarov. Then, maybe a CZ-50. (They're nice little guns, but may not be as robust as you'd like.)

The flood of Lugers that have been entering the US over the past 5-6 years were captured during WWII by the Soviets, and then later used by various Soviet military and para-military forces (such as border police, etc.)

A lot of folks like the CZ-52, but I remain wary of them. First because they're BUTT UGLY, and secondly, despite their reputation for being stout guns, I've been led to believe (by some gunsmiths on the Curio & Relics list) that they're not really that strong or well made. They also aren't very ergonomically designed (i.e., they aren't very comfortable to shoot) but they do boom real loud and spit a lot of flame. Quite a conversation piece on the range.
They never really saw service in combat, but an inordinate number of them have been rearsenaled. (Maybe they aren't too durable, either? The jury seems to be out on these.)

Check out http://www.makarov.com for links, parts, etc.

The PA-63 is a nice little gun, but its also not military and a much later development.
 
Caliban,
I had my Nagant converted to 7.62x25 by a guy advertising
in Shotgun News. He said he had done 300 of these conversions without incident so I sent the cylinder in
and had it done. It works great though some people have
expressed reservations about using such a hot round in
an old revolver. It certainly produces a magnum-like
flash and bang. I only shoot it with Norinco or S&B 7.62,
avoiding the extra-hot Czech loadings. As an added margin
of safety one could use 7.63 Mauser-dimensionally identical
but a milder load. In any event, even if I never shot it
I'd keep it for the character and history of it.
 
I have wondered about the Nagant revolver. We took one from a guy last year. He had it loaded with .32 H and R long, is this safe? The cylinder appeared to be the original one.
 
As I understand it, you can get a .32 acp cylinder for these. That way you can switch back and forth depending on the ammo that you want to shoot.
BTW, what is the NKVD? This communist block stuff is something of a fairly new interest for me, so I'm trying to pick up info where ever possible.
 
caliban - the Colt Woodsman was CIA issue for wet ops... they only made a few as the Woodsman was a rather spendy pistol. CIA did the same thing with the High Standard pistol and had a lot made... so its much more pedestrian.
The Woodsman pistols were given to the top agents.
Like my Dad...
:D
 
The NKVD was the Soviet secret police and intelligence
arm in the 30's and 40's, essentially the predecessor
of the KGB. Two great novels about this organization
in this period are "Night Soldiers" and "Dark Star",
both by Alan Furst. Well worth reading both as enter-
tainment and historical background
 
Guys-

Wow, thanks for all of your help. I plan on building this collection fairly slowly over the next few years, but I will definitely keep this info in mind when shopping around.

Thanks.
 
Cool idea! It makes me want to do the same thing.

There are several good books coming out now on the KGB and their spy apparatus. "Special tasks" is a memoir, there are several good books on the Verona set-up. Just put Verona in as a search term. Get some good history books! Since the archives are opening up you don't have to depend on novels.
 
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