I just bought 2000 rounds of 9x19 115 grain and 1000 rounds of .40 165 grain professional reloads for a total of $511, shipped. 3000 rounds loaded ammo shipped to my house for 17 cents each. Not really much more than the costs of all the time and equipment and space investments for reloading your own...
I just loaded 2000 rounds of 10mm 180 grain and 1000 rounds of 230 grain .45 ACP for a total of $270. 3000 rounds of loaded ammo for 9 cents each. Significant savings over time (3000 rounds/month x 10 years = $28,800) even counting BS factors like "time and equipment and space investments for reloading your own"...
leadcounsel said:
Stated another way, it's not a fair analysis if you never factor in time/value.
Time/value factored in below for you.
Simple version:
Billy Bulk makes $30 per hour and works 7 hours at the sweat shop. He buys 1000 rounds of cheap 9mm for $210. His wallet is empty.
Roy Reloader makes $30 per hour and works 4 hours at the sweat shop. He buys components for 1000 rounds of 9mm for $120. His wallet is empty. He then spends 2 hours loading his components.
Billy invested 7 hours at work for his ammo. Roy invested 4 hours at work + 2 hours at home for a total of 6 hours of labor for 1000 rounds of 9mm. Even including the amortization of all the other factors you seem to think are significant, Roy's total would be well less than 6.1 hours of labor.
Assuming 1000 rounds of 9mm are valued at $210 then:
Billy Bulk = $210 = 7 hours of labor at $30 per hour.
Roy Reloader = $210 = 4 hours at $30/hour + $90 additional labor.
That $90 added value to the components cost Roy 2 hours of his time. So his time was worth $45/hour.
Billy Bulk = 7 hours x $30/hour = $210 ammo
Roy Reloader = 4 hours x $30/hour + 2 hours x $45/hour = $210 ammo
Your choice. The more you shoot, the more you'll save.
More complicated version:
Breakdown of the numbers, including the items that leadcounsel thinks are significant factors (initial equipment cost, powder weighing time, etc). I used $2400 for initial equipment cost.
Bottom line is that worst case scenario, no consideration of reloading time as recreational time (important not to miss the "Angry Housewives of Where Ever" on Tv!) and reloading the ammo with the smallest price differential between bulk and reloads (9mm), you're paying yourself somewhere between $30 - $60 hour. As the price differential between factory ammo and components gets greater (.357 Mag, .44 Mag, .45 ACP, .38-40, 10mm, etc, etc) your hourly return gets greater.
Picking up brass – outdoor - At all of the outdoor ranges I shoot at informally, EVERYONE picks up their brass. Doesn’t matter whether you reload it, give it away, or throw it away, “picking up brass” time is the same for everyone. In the few cases where someone has just walked away and left their brass, ammo boxes, targets, etc, on the ground, we’ve picked them up as a group, reloaders and non-reloaders alike. At club competitions, everyone picks up brass after each stage and throws it in a bucket. After the match, if you want some brass we split it among everyone. Takes about 5 seconds to hold out your bag and get some brass dumped into it. Takes the non-reloaders that long to throw away their ammo boxes. At major competitions, it's "lost brass" anyway and no shooter picks up their brass. I don’t see any difference between reloaders and non-reloaders here.
Picking up brass – indoor – I don’t shoot much at indoor ranges except in competitions, which are considered “lost brass” – the range keeps the brass. In that case no one picks up brass, a range employee sweeps it away between competitors. At the indoor ranges I’ve shot at informally, everyone sweeps their brass into a dustpan when they’re done. The reloaders dump theirs into their bag and take it home, the non-reloaders dump theirs into a pail and the range sells it. Again, I don’t see any difference between reloaders and non-reloaders here.
Sorting brass – (you didn’t mention this one) I use a system of plastic trays with different size slots in them for the different calibers, don’t remember the name, cost about $20 if I remember correctly. I usually dump all the brass into 5 gallon buckets until the bucket is about full. It takes about 15 minutes to run the full bucket through the sorters, and I believe that a bucket is about 5,000 rounds. So that’s 5,000 rounds / (15 min x 60 sec/min) = 5.56 rounds per second, or .18 seconds per round sorting brass.
Cleaning brass – Tumbler does about 1,000 rounds per bowl. Takes me about 30 seconds to dump a bucket of sorted brass into the tumbler, put on the lid, and turn it on. Takes about a minute to turn it off, take off the lid, and run it through the media separator when it’s done. 1,000 rounds in 90 seconds = 11.11 rounds per second, or .09 seconds per round to clean the brass.
Hunting for primers at gun shows – this is somehow different from “hunting for ammo” at gunshows for non-reloaders? I’ve never hunted for ANYTHING at a gunshow or anywhere, I personally order all my reloading supplies and ammo and stock up when they’re cheap. You’ll have to supply me with a factor for this one.
and on and on and on – you’ll have to supply names and factors for these. I’ve included everything I can think of from getting the brass off the ground to getting it sorted and cleaned and polished and ready for reloading.
So let’s set up our equation:
Picking Up Brass (PUB) = same thing for both the reloaders and non-reloaders I shoot with, I’d call this one zero. You’ll have to give me your take on it.
Cleaning Brass (CB) = .18 seconds for sorting + .09 seconds for cleaning = .27 seconds per round. We’ll keep everything in hours, so that’s .27/3600 = .000075 hours per round.
Hunting For Components (HFC) = I still don’t see the difference between hunting for components and hunting for loaded ammo. If you’re not smart enough to look ahead and stock up, it seems to me that it would be the same for both. Again, I’ll need your help since you obviously see this differently.
On And On And On (OAOAO) = You’ll have to give me these. I’ve gone through everything I can think of from picking up brass, to getting it ready to load, to buying components. But you did mention weighing. I guess you assume that Dillon doesn’t include that in their “rounds per hour” figure. I spend about 30 seconds setting and verifying the weight of the powder charge before I start, and another 30 seconds checking it every couple of hundred rounds. So if I’m loading for an hour (400 rounds) and I spend 1 minute weighing, that’s .15 seconds per round or .000042 hours per round.
Lever Time (LT) = Time actually pulling the lever reloading. Dillon says 800 rounds an hour, I’m still going to use 400. I’m not reloading to try to break any speed records. So Lever Time = 400 rounds per hour, or .0025 hours per round.
So far our reloading equation to calculate the hours spent reloading is:
Number of rounds x (PUB + CB + HFC + OAOAO + LT) = hours spent reloading
For example, for 1,000 rounds, it would be:
1,000 x (0 + .000075 + 0 + .000042 + .0025)
= 1,000 x .00267
= 2.7 hours to load 1,000 rounds.
It’s pretty easy to look at prices and see that the components in reloaded 9mm ammo are about half the cost of the cheapest factory 9mm. Adding the component cost into the economic cost of reloading equation makes it:
((Number of rounds x .00267) x (wage per hour)) + (.5 x factory ammo cost)
Last thing I can think of is equipment cost. We’ll use your Dillon price of $1200 and double it. So equipment cost is $2400.
As I said, I’ve had my Dillon for 23 years. Between 1992 and 2002 I easily shot 2,000 rounds per month. Since then I’ve dropped off to 500 rounds per month. That means that I’ve loaded (10 years x 12 months/year x 2,000) + (13 years x 12 months/year x 500) = 318,000 rounds. We won't include the rounds that my friends, kids, and grandkids have loaded on it. So the amortized cost of my equipment, using your price and doubling it, is $2400 / 318,000 = $0.0075 per round
If we add the equipment into our equation for the reloader, the economic cost of reloading becomes:
((Number of rounds x .00267) x (wage per hour)) + (.5 x factory ammo cost) + (number of rounds x .0075)
The economic cost of NOT reloading is pretty simple. It’s the factory ammo cost.
To determine the economic break-even point of the two methods, you simply set them equal to each other and solve for the wage:
((.00267 x Rounds) x (wage/hr)) + (.5 x factory ammo cost) + (number of rounds x .0075) = factory ammo cost.
7th grade algebra gives us;
Wage/hr = (factory ammo cost – (number of rounds x .0075) – (.5 x factory ammo cost)) / (.00267 x rounds)
Let’s see what the break-even wage is for 9mm, using $180/1,000 for factory ammo cost:
Wage/hr = (180 – (1,000 x .0075) – (.5 x 180)) / (.00267 x 1,000)
= (180 – 7.5 – 90) / 2.67
= $30.90 per hour
Using your numbers for equipment cost and wage, and an extremely conservative rate of production, economically you would have to be making about $31.00 per hour to justify buying your 9mm rather than reloading it.
Again, as I stated in a previous post, your assumptions are extremely sensitive to production rate. For example, if you were to use Dillon’s 800 round/hr production rate with the same factors for sorting, cleaning, etc, the time to produce 1 round would be .00137 instead of .00267 hours, making the break even wage:
Wage/hr = (180 – (1,000 x .0075) – (.5 x 180)) / (.00137 x 1,000)
= (180 – 7.5 – 90) / 1.37
= $60.22 per hour
Hopefully you’ll enlighten me by pointing out my errors and omissions. I’m looking forward to incorporating them into my calculations and experiencing some economic enlightenment!
Feel free to point out my errors in the above calculations. For example, I used my own experience in amortizing the $2400 in equipment, let me know what you consider to be a reasonable amount of rounds to use in the amortization.