Squib Load...Anybody Else Experienced This?

[45_auto]

The argument is under the laws of physics--that energy has to go some place--and if not down the barrel it would necessarily blow the gun up in the reciever

Energy has nothing to do with it. It's all conservation of momentum and Newton's Third Law.

http://www.physicsclassroom.com/class/newtlaws/Lesson-4/Newton-s-Third-Law

Formally stated, Newton's third law is: For every action, there is an equal and opposite reaction. The statement means that in every interaction, there is a pair of forces acting on the two interacting objects. The size of the forces on the first object equals the size of the force on the second object.

Short explanation of recoil physics is here:

http://www.bsharp.org/physics/recoil

In simple terms, in a recoil operated pistol like a Glock 20, the force on the bullet equals force on the slide. Since Force = Mass x Acceleration, the force to operate the SLIDE = mass of the BULLET x acceleration of the BULLET.

If the bullet has very little acceleration (like just enough to stick it in the barrel) then bullet mass times very little bullet acceleration means that there is very little recoil force developed.

report sounded normal and the recoil felt the same.

If your Glock 20 operated normally on your squib load and the recoil felt the same as a regular load despite the vastly reduced force, you need to patent your reloading process that bypasses the laws of physics and become a billionaire. The military industrial complex will beat a path to your door paved in gold bricks. You'll make the reactionless thrust guys (weekend trips to Pluto) look like buffoons.

http://www.gizmag.com/cannae-reactionless-drive-space-propulsion/33210/

 

[stagpanther]

It not only recoiled normally--but it cycled the next round in behind the squib--the only reason the gun didn't REALLY blow up at that point was because the squib load was far back enough that the succeeding cartridge couldn't chamber all the way.

 

[TunnelRat]

I've done General Physics I and II at the college level. A couple of roommates were mechanical engineers. My experience has been that when it comes to firearms people often think that the physics should break down more simply than they do. The reports on here of a squib managing to cycle the slide without leaving the barrel aren't the only ones that can be found. Now maybe every one of those individuals suffers under the same delusion (math and science education in the US do suck), but maybe there's more to this than just reading Newton's Third Law.

 

[pilpens]

I have fired several squibs. Mostly, when I was new at reloading.
I had locked up my 686 several times by firing cartridges with no powder or not enough powder. The primer only cartridges sent the bullets to the forcing cone and stop there locking up the cylinder.
Other times with my 9mm reloads.
My wife shot her XDm using my reloads and did not realize she had fired a squib (probably a primer only squib). Luckily, it was so weak that the bullet did not go far enough in the barrel to allow the next cartridge to chamber. So, no shot was possible after the squib. I remember her trying to clear the issue by racking the slide to try and chamber another round and failed several times. Lucky us.
All the squibs I have experienced are from my reloads.
====
I also have done 1 9mm double charge -- it blew the magazine out of the all steel pistol, split the wood grips, and case raptured near the case head and locked up the gun. ---- only damage were the wood grips and magazine. --- Lucky again.

 

[dwhite]

Next time you have to send a gun back for repair, make some calls.

I have a local dealer that will do it for $12. Since he's a dealer he can ship it U.S. Mail.

All the Best,
D. White

 

[45_auto]

The reports on here of a squib managing to cycle the slide without leaving the barrel aren't the only ones that can be found. Now maybe every one of those individuals suffers under the same delusion (math and science education in the US do suck), but maybe there's more to this than just reading Newton's Third Law.

No doubt about that.

My problem with stagdpanther's description is from his description of his squibs:

I've had a couple of squibs and in both cases there was full ignition

Given full ignition of a cartridge, that chamber pressure is going to go SOMEWHERE. The entire premise of a recoil operated weapon is that the barrel and breech DO NOT unlock until after the bullet has left the barrel and the pressure has dropped to manageable levels. If the bullet of a fully ignited cartridge sticks just in front of the chamber, then that pressure is NOT being vented out of the barrel behind the bullet, it's coming back through the gun.

How many pictures of Glock kabooms have you seen from ruptured case heads? At least in that case the majority of the pressure effects are mitigated by the bullet exiting the barrel and relieving the pressure. However, even a minor case head rupture will blow the magazine apart (voice of experience speaking here). Venting a fully ignited cartridge with a bullet stuck in the bore back through the gun would make a ruptured case head seem inconsequential in comparison.

One of the very basic tenants of engineering is Force = Mass x Acceleration. Per his description, he has generated the amount of force necessary to operate his weapon and for him to experience full recoil effects WITHOUT accelerating the bullet.

A far more likely explanation is that there was NOT full ignition, but that would mean that his handloads were at fault.

His claims of a perfectly normal firing event, with FULL IGNITION, but no effect other than the bullet sticking just in front of the chamber defy reality.

 

[stagpanther]

@45--last time I'm saying this--I have absolutely no stake in trying to scapegoat or blame the squib I had on something other than my faulty hand-load that was shorted on powder. To this day it bothers me that I experienced what felt to me like a normal recoil and report. It would be FAR PREFERABLE AND EASIER for me to simply say underpowered charge and call it a day. But that is distinctly not my recollection. That is the only reason I mentioned it--not because I'm "denying reality" or trying to blame what happened as being anything other than my reloading error.

In retrospect, I remember the squib case showed signs of gas leakage down the side and the back of the bullet pitted with residue. Unfortunately I cannot recall for sure whether there was any unburnt powder or blowback of powder/reside from the gun at the time of firing--but that might be a possibility. As best as I can recollect the primer was intact.