Springfield VS Les Baer

G

George Hill

Staff Alumnus
At the range today I picked up a Les Baer. (Just to handle for a moment, not to purchase.)
This L.B. gun looks just like my Springfield. Both 1911s, both two tone finished. The L.B. had adjustable sights and an ambi safety but other than that they are identical from 10 feet away.
Now, my Springfield cost me 600 bucks cash out the door.
The Les Baer costs the same, plus an additional $850 for the "You can now take it out the door" fee. I wanted to feel the difference and compair. I heft the gun and it felt damn near identical to mine. So why the extra cash?

That question was answered the very second that I racked back the slide. Dammmmmn that was SMOOOOOOTH!
Smooth cycling worth that extra cash? Maybe... maybe not.
Then I tried the trigger.
Crisp. No creep. No stacking. Just a *PERFECT* break at 3.5 pounds. *Perfect*.
Is this worth the extra cash? Maybe. Maybe not.

I gave the pistol back to the shop keep... then I went on the range with my group. (included in the group is my 8 year old son packing the Remington 514 and 200 rounds of ammo for it - more on that later and in another thread)
I break out my Springfield.... load up a mag full of hardball and proceed to chamber a round.
Boy does my pistol feel GRITTY. I didn't feel gritty before, and I had just cleaned and lubed it too!
Then in the firing lane when I was proceeding to drop the hammer... Man, that trigger feels just aweful! It didn't feel bad before!

I guess you get what you pay for. :(
 
Yo, Santa!

I realize it's a little past the normal date for such things, but we'll all vouch for George being a good boy! :D
 
Those are just the differences you can sense. Visual checks at 10 feet don't tell you much.
A well build custom gun should wear in much better also.
 
Les Baer Monolith Commanche .. stop it!

Dang it, will you guys stop it!!!
I've been ooogling a Les Baer Monolith Commanche for a few months now and I can slowly feel $1620 leaving my pocket.... :eek: ... just as soon as I can come up with a excuse the wife will buy....
 
I guess...

...that all depends on the Springfield in question. Some hold up rather well by comparison. ;)

proright.jpg


Mine has the serial number on the frame...and the slide...and the barrel...and the barrel bushing(!). (Do not attempt to take this pistol apart if you are in a hurry. Do not attempt to use a nylon bushing wrench or your fingers.)
 
Back when Baers were 1200 or so

Back when Baers were 1200 or so---i decided i wanted a hot rod Limited single stack--so i broke out the Caspian catalog--got ready to order a competition frame and slide--got out my Dennys catolog and figured out the cost to order all the best stuff for the internals...then i figured to pay the best smith i knew of 500 or 600 to make it all run good good and guess what----the Baer was the better deal--plus now i've got a gun with name recognition and reputation.......i'm sure if i did the same calculations today it would work out the same.....Dick
 
OOOO thats nice Tamara, what model is it?

Mr. Hill How does the SA compare to a Kimber in action and smoothness?
 
George . . .

Great post, thanks you. I love my Springfield TRP, but have been analyzing the marginal improvements likely provided by a Wilson or Baer.

This leads me to the key, unanswered question from your post: Given the Springfield's ("Loaded", as I recall?) poorer trigger pull and slide cycling, did your RESULTS -- accuracy, speed and reliability -- suffer? I know this is a difficult question, since you did not actually fire the Baer.

If your results were liable to be identical, then the extra $850 is for the "joy of precision" as contrasted to "necessary performance". Now there is absolutely nothing wrong with an investment in beauty and precision, and some (think Porsche) cost lots more than $850. However, I would sincerely be interested in your opinions re probable results.

Thanks and best regards.
 
If you want to say "I own a Les Baer", you can't do that owning a Springfield. If you want a reliable gun with a good trigger, that is accurate, get a good smith to do a trigger job for $100 and take the extra $750 and buy yet another pistol to add to your stable.

Ain't nothin better than a good runnin Chevy. :)
 
George,

Don't you remember how well you shot with my Les Baer and Wilson Combat at the range in Richmond?

The Baer also has a superior barrel. It's cut by Kart. In addition, the frames on Baers are not as blocky as the SA's.

There's a simple reason for the blocky design on Springfields. In the past, they were having problems with stress cracks. Instead of rectifying the manufacturing process, they re-designed the frame and used a different type of endmill for the cutting. End result, a blocky frame.

The tolerances are also tighter on Baers. Generally, they are considered the tightest and most accurate 1911's from the semi-custom line.

I'm quite familiar with Dave Williams work from the custom shop. He knows how a good pistol should be built. The only complaint I have against SA Customs are the barrels. For the money, they should supply either a Barsto or Kart.

Just my humble opnion.

Happy New Years!
 
Maybe it is a matter of you get what you pay for more than which brand you purchase. About 11-12 years ago (I don't exactly remember but that in that neighborhood) I called Springfield and ordered a "Custom Carry" 1911. Each feature was carefully specified to my preferences. When it came, it was a masterpiece. As slick as any Les Baer I ever held. Tight, accurate, reliable, 3.5 pound trigger (which I requested), Melded Bomars, FMSH, FLGR, Flared lower ejection port, polished & throated feed ramp, Checkered MSH & FS (30 LPI), Beavertail grip safety, Ambidexterous Safety, Videcki trigger, Commander Hammer, Chromed frame and high polish blued slide. Serations in the back of the slide where they belong.

I later had Trijicon night sight inserts added to the Bomars and Cocobala grips. Otherwise everything is as originally ordered. I never sent it back due to a need for warranty.

I have put about 5K rounds through it without any breakage or need for repairs beyond normal maintenance. It has fed anything it has been fed.

Do I still have it?.......You damn right. Would I trade it for a Les Baer?....NO. Is it as good as a Les Baer?......In every way that I can tell. It is a work of art that runs like a Singer Sewing Machine. Heck, maybe Les Baer made it at Springfield, who knows, but it did not cost $600.00. It cost $1600.00 before the night sights and grips. That was 11-12 years ago.

Moral: There is no such thing as a free lunch & Springfield can build a firearm as well as anybody if you are willing to pay for it.

I bet the FBI got some sweet running pistols…..but I doubt they are any better than the one I got.

PigPen
 
Actually George, if I remember correctly, the price of that gun was set at $1250. It is a nice pistol and if I had the extra $$$, I might pick it up. But this year, my parents told me to spend my X-mas $$$ on new clothing and not to spend it all at one place. :)

$1250. That's a huge chunk of change. Right now I don't think I could appreciate all of the features/benefits of that gun. Still to much of a novice. Heck, I'll settle for my Fusia Pink DDA now that I know it is me that can't shoot straight. :confused:
 
I was just out shooting my 10mm Baer Heavyweight Monolith. George, you just hit the nail on the head why I only own full size 1911's from Baer. After a few (or three in my case) you pick up a standard kimber or springfield or whatever and they all seem so gritty and rough. I am sure the wilson's or whatever custom shop would be about the same as my Baer's but I have had good luck with him so why change.

If you go for the Baer, get the 1.5" guarantee. It is a lot of fun at 75 yards to be blasting clay pigeon chips and hitting them nearly every time!

ps: my 180 grn rem JHP's reloads were clocking 1297 mean with 16 fps SD. Not to shabby a hunting load.
 
To answer a question above - I bet you anything I could have shot a lot better with they Baer. The smoothness does help in accuracy - and I mean in the trigger specifically. 90% of accuracy issues I generally see involve trigger manipulation. It is a lot easier to shoot a pistol well if it has a nice trigger.
But then again the getting what you pay for in a pistol is more than just a nice trigger. I could buy a trigger kit and drop it into my gun right now, but I wouldnt compair it to a Baer at that point.
 
George,

Sounds to me like you got your mind made up and are just looking for permission to make the call and order it. Well.....you have my permission. Most of this gun stuff is how much you can spend, and yes, most of the time you get what you pay for, but in the end, it is your happiness that matters. If your gun does not make you happy you need to move on to the next one, or two,
or three, or four..............:)
 
The only complaint I have against SA Customs are the barrels. For the money, they should supply either a Barsto or Kart.
Click to expand...

Considering the accuracy requirements the Professional had to meet for a certain contract, I'm a little surprised at the choice of barrels myself (not that Nowlin doesn't make fine barrels).

I should get my hands on some Golden Saber and a Ransom rest; Wilson said it "couldn't be done" with that brand of ammo (1.5"@25yd), based on their experiments with a barrel firing from a test fixture.
 
You guys are lucky. I live in the People's Republic of MA and 1911's made after 1997(?) are banned 'cause they don't meet the state's new draconian "safety" policy. Older, quality G'vt Models are drying up very fast.

So long as I'm stuck here, I'll never see a Les Baer (at least not new anyway). Thank God I have at least a Gold Cup and a 10mm Delta Elite.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top