For some reason I just started getting a hankering for an M1A or an M14. From the prices I'm seeing on the Springfields, it could be a year before I ever could buy one. Which would be the better choice for target shooting? Are semi-auto M14's available? Guess I really never paid attention before.
Springfield M1A or M14?
- Thread starter Monkeyleg
- Start date
Steve Smith
New member
A company or two have purchased cut up M14's and rewelded them, withall kinds of high speed ninja-s**t operations, heat treatment, and measureing, saying that you can have a real honest to goodness M14 (semi-auto of course) by buying through them. Several have purchased them and they ran great, but the ATF caught wind of it, and the companys were tied up with legal matters for months...I don't know the latest details.
What others (like Fulton Armory) call an M14, is not an M14. They are mostly using Springfield receivers. They have made some of their own receivers, but they're REALLY pricey and quite rare. M1A is a product name of Springfield Armory, and the M14 is a government rifle. Perhaps Fulton Armory should call theirs an F-14? Fulton's rifles are great. Springfield's CAN be great, but can be bad as well. Both have a lifetime warrantee. There is a better chance of using the one from Springfield, as they make a lot more rifles.
What others (like Fulton Armory) call an M14, is not an M14. They are mostly using Springfield receivers. They have made some of their own receivers, but they're REALLY pricey and quite rare. M1A is a product name of Springfield Armory, and the M14 is a government rifle. Perhaps Fulton Armory should call theirs an F-14? Fulton's rifles are great. Springfield's CAN be great, but can be bad as well. Both have a lifetime warrantee. There is a better chance of using the one from Springfield, as they make a lot more rifles.
Hi, guys,
Just to resolve possible confusion. The M14 rifle (selective fire) was made by Springfield Armory, the now-closed government facility in Massachusetts, and also by Winchester, TRW and H&R. The M1A (trademark) is made by a private company, Springfield Armory, Inc. in Geneseo, Illinois.
There have been several U.S. and foreign copies of the M14 made for semi-auto only. As Steve says, some companies have bought cut up military receivers and welded the pieces back together without the selective fire parts. The legality of these has been questioned, but I know of no actual convictions for either manufacture or possession.
I would (and have) gone the M1A route.
Jim
Just to resolve possible confusion. The M14 rifle (selective fire) was made by Springfield Armory, the now-closed government facility in Massachusetts, and also by Winchester, TRW and H&R. The M1A (trademark) is made by a private company, Springfield Armory, Inc. in Geneseo, Illinois.
There have been several U.S. and foreign copies of the M14 made for semi-auto only. As Steve says, some companies have bought cut up military receivers and welded the pieces back together without the selective fire parts. The legality of these has been questioned, but I know of no actual convictions for either manufacture or possession.
I would (and have) gone the M1A route.
Jim
MP Freeman
New member
M14 is full auto, and kicks too much. I don't like the M14 in full auto. I've shot one and when I was standing, I couldn't get off more than five rounds before I had to stop and pull the gun down. Besides that, only the first round hit the target. However, the things really rocks when fired from the hip. You can dump the full 20 rounds without stoppings. But alas, accuracy is poor.
M1A
Monkeyleg, if you don't have a high powered rifle already, you might consider starting with a FAL. Not as much class as a M1A, but same round, semi-auto, fun-to-shoot. And kit guns can be had for $600 or less.
I have both now, and plan on keeping them. Both of them are good for dealing with idiots like Osama bin dickhead!
Monkeyleg, if you don't have a high powered rifle already, you might consider starting with a FAL. Not as much class as a M1A, but same round, semi-auto, fun-to-shoot. And kit guns can be had for $600 or less.
I have both now, and plan on keeping them. Both of them are good for dealing with idiots like Osama bin dickhead!
"M14 is full auto, and kicks too much. I don't like the M14 in full auto. I've shot one and when I was standing, I couldn't get off more than five rounds before I had to stop and pull the gun down. Besides that, only the first round hit the target. However, the things really rocks when fired from the hip. You can dump the full 20 rounds without stoppings. But alas, accuracy is poor."
Could "simple" modifications be made to the M14 that would make it more effective as a combat weapon?
Such as: Selective three round bursts ala M16/M4.
A short Heavy barrel with a muzzle break- It's heavy
already, why not another 0.5 lb, or perhaps a built in
bipod for added weight and versatility?
Forward mounted pistol grip- or a hybrid pistol
grip/bipod that folds into the forarm.
Could "simple" modifications be made to the M14 that would make it more effective as a combat weapon?
Such as: Selective three round bursts ala M16/M4.
A short Heavy barrel with a muzzle break- It's heavy
already, why not another 0.5 lb, or perhaps a built in
bipod for added weight and versatility?
Forward mounted pistol grip- or a hybrid pistol
grip/bipod that folds into the forarm.
ATTICUS --
Already been done in the M14E2.
Forward pistol grip, bipod, I think an extra recoil brake. Still semi/full not semi/burst though.
Although I've heard of a couple times where they saved a unit's bacon 'cause the oppising force thought 3 FA .308s meant 3 M60s meant a hellaciously larger force, I don't think they worked well enough for the Army to hold on to 'em.
But then again, the Army gets to back themselves up with morters, real MGs, and artillery.
-K
Already been done in the M14E2.
Forward pistol grip, bipod, I think an extra recoil brake. Still semi/full not semi/burst though.
Although I've heard of a couple times where they saved a unit's bacon 'cause the oppising force thought 3 FA .308s meant 3 M60s meant a hellaciously larger force, I don't think they worked well enough for the Army to hold on to 'em.
But then again, the Army gets to back themselves up with morters, real MGs, and artillery.
-K
Fred's has a couple, I think.
http://www.fredsm14stocks.com/catalog/stocks.asp
(toward the bottom, look for "Birch M14E2" -- spendy!)
There's a rear pistol grip cut out of the wood stock. The foregrip is a kind of "fold-down" arrangement that is supported by a sling. Really, truly, odd-looking.
Example:
http://www.securityarms.com/20010315/galleryfiles/orig/m14e2.htm
Finally, remember your evil features count. If you put an E2 stock on a Springfield, you'll need to remove the flash suppressor to stay legal.
honestly, I suspect a modern Choate-type version would work better for what you have in mind, but i've no idea if those are made.
-K
http://www.fredsm14stocks.com/catalog/stocks.asp
(toward the bottom, look for "Birch M14E2" -- spendy!)
There's a rear pistol grip cut out of the wood stock. The foregrip is a kind of "fold-down" arrangement that is supported by a sling. Really, truly, odd-looking.
Example:
http://www.securityarms.com/20010315/galleryfiles/orig/m14e2.htm
Finally, remember your evil features count. If you put an E2 stock on a Springfield, you'll need to remove the flash suppressor to stay legal.
honestly, I suspect a modern Choate-type version would work better for what you have in mind, but i've no idea if those are made.
-K
Steve Smith
New member
Atticus, the stocks maybe purchsed. The synthetic ones run about $250 (?) and the wod ones (birch, think) start at $350 or so...I saw a beautiful woden one at a gun show this past weekend for $425.
Too rich for my blood.
Too rich for my blood.
I've got a scout model (muzzle break) so I would be OK there...I think...unless it would have to be pinned/welded on. That $425 for a stock would be a bit of a problem right now, but I appreciate the info.
That is a strange looking contraption shown in the securityarms pic. I'm curious as to how that forward grip is attached. If it could be moved further forward AND be designed to do double duty as a bipod - that would be interesting.
That is a strange looking contraption shown in the securityarms pic. I'm curious as to how that forward grip is attached. If it could be moved further forward AND be designed to do double duty as a bipod - that would be interesting.
Steve Smith
New member
wood, not wod.
Disclamer -- I've only handled an M14E2 once, and that one was minus the foregrip and sling.
BUT, from the manuals I have, the foregrip is hinged to the forestock, and fastened somehow to the sling at the base of the foregrip. You pull down and back with the foregrip, which gives you downward sling pressure on the stock. Not unlike using a shooting sling, I gather, but from a different position.
Like I said, wierd. No idea how it worked in real live use... anyone else on here actually used the thing in the field?
-K
PS --
threaded barrel == evil feature
pistol grip stock == evil feature
Unless the rifle is pre-ban, I'm GUESSING you would need to pin the brake on.
BUT, from the manuals I have, the foregrip is hinged to the forestock, and fastened somehow to the sling at the base of the foregrip. You pull down and back with the foregrip, which gives you downward sling pressure on the stock. Not unlike using a shooting sling, I gather, but from a different position.
Like I said, wierd. No idea how it worked in real live use... anyone else on here actually used the thing in the field?
-K
PS --
threaded barrel == evil feature
pistol grip stock == evil feature
Unless the rifle is pre-ban, I'm GUESSING you would need to pin the brake on.
I was talking to a guy a few weeks ago that was one of the original participants at Knob Creek, and a machine gunner from way back. He said that the M14 in full auto was fairly managable while shooting from a prone position and using the bipod.
That conversation got me thinking about other mods to make it more user friendly. A forward PG seemed like a good idea.
Personally, I don't find the recoil that bad with the scout. I would think that tri-bursts would'nt be that bad, if feasible.
That conversation got me thinking about other mods to make it more user friendly. A forward PG seemed like a good idea.
Personally, I don't find the recoil that bad with the scout. I would think that tri-bursts would'nt be that bad, if feasible.
Not to confuse the issue...
But there ARE semi-auto M14's out there.
I have one, the receiver is made here in the USA by a company in Baltimore, Maryland called Armscorp. My receiver states "M14NM", plain as daylight.
No, it doesn't have a Springfield, Inc receiver, nor is it a reweld, or Chinese.
People tend to forget, in their haste, that M1A is nothing more than Springfield, Inc's registered trademark for their semi-auto copy of the U.S. Rifle, Caliber 7.62mm, M14. As such, anybody else who builds a semi-auto M14 clone runs the risk of copyright infringement if they name their creation an M1A.
I'm assuming it's the same logic that causes people to call office copy machines Xeroxes, even if they were made by IBM, Panasonic, etc.
Regardless, it does a disservice to folks like Smith Enterprises, Armscorp, and Enterprise Arms, who do indeed build semi-auto M14 receivers...
But there ARE semi-auto M14's out there.
I have one, the receiver is made here in the USA by a company in Baltimore, Maryland called Armscorp. My receiver states "M14NM", plain as daylight.
No, it doesn't have a Springfield, Inc receiver, nor is it a reweld, or Chinese.
People tend to forget, in their haste, that M1A is nothing more than Springfield, Inc's registered trademark for their semi-auto copy of the U.S. Rifle, Caliber 7.62mm, M14. As such, anybody else who builds a semi-auto M14 clone runs the risk of copyright infringement if they name their creation an M1A.
I'm assuming it's the same logic that causes people to call office copy machines Xeroxes, even if they were made by IBM, Panasonic, etc.
Regardless, it does a disservice to folks like Smith Enterprises, Armscorp, and Enterprise Arms, who do indeed build semi-auto M14 receivers...