Springfield Hellcat - Red Dot or Not?

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Bobgeorge

New member
I bought a Hellcat (non-osp) as my CCW in February 2020 and love it.

For the people that have a red dot do you find it more accurate? Also, does the red dot make it more difficult to conceal.

Wondering because most situations where you needed your CCW would normally be very close range so just wondering how much more accurate a red dot would make it.

Thanks!
 
I hope you do not mind me replying to your inquiry as I do not use a red dot for CCW. I use reddot in some of my handguns for target shooting and a little bit of precision shooting. My experience has shown me that if you need a fast acquisition in a defensive posture, since this is your conceal carry, open sights would be the way to go.

I have issues trying to find the dot in my target guns and it could be because the it is a small MOA dot instead of the larger ones and it is because of this experience that I personally would not use one. Just my 2¢ that you did not ask for.
 
ms6852 said:
I hope you do not mind me replying to your inquiry as I do not use a red dot for CCW. I use reddot in some of my handguns for target shooting and a little bit of precision shooting. My experience has shown me that if you need a fast acquisition in a defensive posture, since this is your conceal carry, open sights would be the way to go.

I have issues trying to find the dot in my target guns and it could be because the it is a small MOA dot instead of the larger ones and it is because of this experience that I personally would not use one. Just my 2¢ that you did not ask for.
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Good feedback. Thanks.
 
I have red dots mounted on five pistols that I carry or use for home defense. The closest of those in size to the Hellcat would be the P365XL.

There is a learning curve with red dots when talking about sights that don’t have a tubular body with front and rear lenses. Most of this is about getting a good presentation with the pistol such that the dot is where your eye expect it to be. If your standard presentation is very good the learning curve won’t be as harsh. If your presentation is not as good then you’re in for a rougher ride. Red dots can really expose faults in your technique. Expect to spend some time training with a red dot to really get comfortable with it (in my experience that training you do will pay dividends when using or not using red dots).

Red dots have the capacity for greater accuracy, but like anything with shooting the user is still the biggest factor. To me the biggest advantage of red dots on pistols is target focused shooting. You’re not trying to align a front sight in a rear notch while getting all of those on a target. You’re superimposing the dot on the target itself. The focus remains on the target.

Will the above make a difference at say 3-5 yd? Given that you can point shoot effectively at that distance, maybe not. But red dots give an added capability without taking away the ability to point shoot.

I have carried with a red dot in both the appendix and at the 3 o’clock position. I don’t find it hampers my concealment. In fact in some ways it breaks up the outline of the straight top of the slide.

I hesitate to tell any one person that he or she should get a red dot. It’s a decision I think best made by each person. As someone whose vision is such that managing multiple focal planes was always a challenge, red dots have made my shooting easier and more enjoyable.


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I have a Hellcat and put a dot on it. I found I could shoot quicker with the open sights but more accurately at greater distances with the dot. I ended up taking it off.
 
I have a Sig Romeo Zero mounted on my Hellcat and I love it. I found a holster made for both gun and optic. No different than carrying any other gun. I carry OWB.

Aiming a red dot is absolutely no different than aiming with iron sights and because the two sights co-witness if you aim one you are aiming the other. The red dot allows for much faster aimed follow up shots. I have a number of red dots and lasers on some of my more often used pistols. I good quality green laser is also a valuable tool. I'll take any advantage I can get. I have a Canik TP9 Elite SC with both! If I miss with that one it's all my fault!

 
One note on co-witnessing. The general advice seems to be to zero the red dot and the irons separately. That is while you’ll be able to see both in the optic window, don’t slave the red dot to the iron sights. Different instructors will explain the why differently, but Aaron Cowan explains it that by forcing the two to have the same point of aim you’re essentially giving up some of the accuracy potential of the red dot and the irons themselves are zeroed by their design for a set distance, whereas you can choose that distance with a red dot. I found his video helped me understand.

https://youtu.be/tpkb0Lyr9RM

In my experience zeroing the dot and the irons separately is a good idea. When first installing the red dot I will slave the red dot to the front post so that it sits on top of the front post (think of a lollipop). This generally puts the red dot in the ballpark of being zeroed. Then I will go the range and zero the red dot separately. In my case the red dot usually ends up very slightly high and to the left of the front post if I look down the irons with the front post centered in the rear sight. This is fine. While some people will use the irons to help find their dot, the two sighting methods don’t have to have the exact same POA to function.


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Last year I bought a CZ P10 S OSP - my CCW - love at first shot. Later I put a Delta Point Pro on it. Harder to get on target and I seemed to have lost some accuracy. People told me I needed to get used to an optic sight. 500 rounds later - I took the optic off. I shoot faster and more accurately without the optic. I moved that optic to a competition gun, CZ Shadow, and fell in love w that set up - the optic worked for me on this handgun but just felt unnatural on the sub compact - I felt like I had to tilt the handgun down to get the dot in view on the sub but on the full size handgun the dot was visible on my usual presentation. No adjustment to handgun level needed.
 
Not apples to apples. I put a Delta Point on my glock 40. I'm finding I dont shoot any better with it. Now i have something that needs a battery on my woods carry gun thats not really needed . i think I would have been better off to just have put some type of high vis sights on the gun.

With ammo being hard to get I have not shot it as much as Id like to. I am undecided if the red dot is going to stay on my glock at this time. It does work, but I dont think its needed.
 
I put a SRO on my Glock 34. It took a year of continual use but I am now faster with the dot than irons.

It takes a lot of practice to get good with a pistol mounted dot. However if you have the time and ammo to put in the reps, it will pay off.
 
Bobgeorge, have you considered mounting a laser to your handgun? No need to worry about cowitnessing your sight. I have lasers mounted to several handguns. Red dots on a rifle or two.
 
Good Morning Bobgeorge,

I've read that the Hellcat has surpassed a 20k test w/o a single problem. It's a top-of-the-line handgun.

My take is a Hellcat is a belly gun. It's a very close distance handgun, which means it's a point shooting gun. At very close distance, acquiring sights might determine the outcome. There's reason the Chief Special has virtually no sights. Hence, if it's going to be used for close distance self-defense, an optic sight might defeat its purpose.

I have factory sights only on my self-defense handguns. When I go to ranges, 90% of my shooting is point shooting.
 
Sanch said:
Good Morning Bobgeorge,

I've read that the Hellcat has surpassed a 20k test w/o a single problem. It's a top-of-the-line handgun.

My take is a Hellcat is a belly gun. It's a very close distance handgun, which means it's a point shooting gun. At very close distance, acquiring sights might determine the outcome. There's reason the Chief Special has virtually no sights. Hence, if it's going to be used for close distance self-defense, an optic sight might defeat its purpose.

I have factory sights only on my self-defense handguns. When I go to ranges, 90% of my shooting is point shooting.
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Good feedback, Sanch!
 
Sanch said:
Good Morning Bobgeorge,

I've read that the Hellcat has surpassed a 20k test w/o a single problem. It's a top-of-the-line handgun.

My take is a Hellcat is a belly gun. It's a very close distance handgun, which means it's a point shooting gun. At very close distance, acquiring sights might determine the outcome. There's reason the Chief Special has virtually no sights. Hence, if it's going to be used for close distance self-defense, an optic sight might defeat its purpose.

I have factory sights only on my self-defense handguns. When I go to ranges, 90% of my shooting is point shooting.
Click to expand...


I’ve shot the P365, own a P365XL. To me pistols of similar size are more than just belly guns. They’re certainly capable of good shooting out to 10 yd and more, which unless you have a very large belly is outside what I consider a belly gun. I’ve done a two day course on reflexive (point) shooting that was based on the teachings of Bob Taubert. I definitely think reflexive shooting is a useful skill. That said, there’s nothing mutually exclusive about a micro red dot and reflexive shooting. I still practice reflexive shooting with my red dot equipped pistols.


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I have shot many handguns with various dots mounted. Yes they can be more accurate at distance but I strongly prefer open sights on my defensive revolvers. Take that extra $200 and buy a box of practice 9mm.
 
Hi Tunnel Rat,

As distance of threat increases, tactical response should be modified to increase probability of survival. If a threat were 10 yards from me, I'd be thinking of tactical retreat to the new county. Getting shot could screw up the rest of my life.

At distances of 90+5 percent of gunfights, a survivor has to keep both eyes open and scan for additional threats.

Point shooting "X" rights hits at 10 feet is easy with practice. At 30 feet, I'd be thinking of running to safety.

By definition, a gunfight means a bad guy wants you reduced to evidence of murder and your corpse autopsied the following morning. I want to avoid that disposition.

A good tactical shooting course will include tactical retreats which is euphemism for hightailing it to the next county.
 
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