Springfield 1903?

dbuffington

New member
Hi Folks!

In this week's exciting episode of "What Did I Buy?" we have a Springfield I picked up at an auction a few days ago. Here are some photos …

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Military arms are definitely not my specialty, but it seems like this is a Springfield 1903 -- not A1, A2, A3, etc. -- made at the Springfield Armory around 1908.

It also appears that it was rebuilt, but I'm less sure about that. The "N122" mark doesn't correspond to the arsenal rebuild stamps I've seen.

Also, I'm not sure what the stamp near the front sight represents, but I'm guessing that "RA" over "2-44" means that a new barrel was installed at the Raritan Arsenal in February 1944.

Any corrections or additions would be greatly appreciated!

Thanks!
Dave
 
Yep, Springfield 1903 rebuild during WWII with new barrel and parkerized finish. Original receiver is in the "suspect heat treatment" number range, enjoy as collectible and shoot at your own risk.
 
N122 is mostly likely a rack #.

The stock is not USGI.

This may have been a post war rebuild by a foreign country (a lot of these were reimported beginning in the 1960's - most recently a huge number came through the DCM from Greece). It may also be a put together from available parts by an enterprising individual.
 
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I suspect this is a Federal Ordnance parts rifle. Late 80’s, early 90’s, Federal Ordnance brought in thousands of M1903’s, parts, etc, from the Philippines. Based on the rust pits I see on your receiver, that is a characteristic of Fed Ord rifles. If you have more corrosion under the stock line, then it is definitely a Fed Ord import. I am of the opinion that US Arsenals would have tossed receivers with as much pitting as I saw on Fed Ord receivers. Fed Ord also reparked parts, they had Sedgley, RA, SA, new replacement barrels and they made complete rifles from parts.

Fed Ord used original stocks and had replacement stocks made. I bought one of their repro stocks, the walnut had more figuring than GI, they were nice looking stocks.

The action is a low number action, these actions, under 800,000 SA, are highly variable in quality, so much so, that a 1927 board recommended that all 1,000,000 low number M1903 receivers be scrapped. For monetary reasons, they were not. Instead low number rifles were kept in service till they wore out the barrel, or blew up in front of some unfortunate. If returned to an Army depot, the receiver was scrapped. The basic problem was the primitive production equipment on the factory floor of the Government Arsenals and a failure of Army management to acknowledge they had a problem. While the Germans installed pyrometers as early as 1906 in their Arsenals, Springfield Armory did not until 1918. Till then, forge shop workers were judging billet temperatures by eye, a most inexact system. This resulted in many receiver billets being burnt at the begining of the production line. Once steel is over heated, "burnt", it cannot be restored, and the resultant part is brittle. Based on contemporary reports, explaining why some bolts shed their lugs, the reported cause was “excessive case hardening”. This tells me process controls were out of whack from the front of the line to the back. It is my opinion that Springfield Armory was a ship that leaked from many seams. I am unaware of any non destructive test to sort “good” from “bad”. The Marines, per a poster elsewhere, hit their receivers twice with a heavy hammer. If the receiver shattered it was bad. If you do this, I recommend hitting the receiver on the ring, right rail, and receiver bridge. If it shatters, at least it did not shatter when firing.

Even if you have a “good” low number receiver, be aware it was made of low carbon steels that today, are so low grade and cheap that rail road ties, and rebar, are made of the material. With the exception that the same steels today would be much cleaner with less slag and impurities. This is simply a matter of the primitive process controls of the period, but it means that these receivers cannot survive out of tolerance loads that a modern alloy receiver would survive. I am unaware of anyone making such a safety critical part, as a receiver, from plain carbon steels.

Given that we don’t know the previous use history of your receiver, the quality of the materials, and whether it was overheated during manufacture, it is up to you whether you should shoot the thing. If you plan to use, reload with light to moderate loads and always wear shooting glasses. These actions vent gases straight towards the shooter, as gas handling features were an after thought in the action design.
 
> Fed Ord used original stocks and had replacement stocks made ...

Which would explain the lack of rebuild stamps on the stock.

> If you plan to use, reload with light to moderate loads
> and always wear shooting glasses.

Understood and agreed. I do plan to shoot it ... just for the experience and to get some idea of the accuracy potential of the gun ... and I will use my own reloads, which are moderate-to-light and have been tested in other guns.

Thanks!
Dave
 
>> If you plan to use, reload with light to moderate loads
>> and always wear shooting glasses.

> Understood and agreed. I do plan to shoot it ... just for the experience and to
> get some idea of the accuracy potential of the gun ... and I will use my own
> reloads, which are moderate-to-light and have been tested in other guns.

I took the 1903 to the range this morning and put a few rounds through it. They were the moderate loads mentioned above and there were no obvious issues. No loading oddities. No firing oddities. No extraction oddities. No case or primer oddities.

(Yes, I'm well aware and appreciative of the issues involved with these "low-numbered" receivers, and this info should be taken as a data point, nothing more.)

Indeed, the only odd thing was the perceived recoil. I've fired these loads in other guns, and given the weight of this gun, I was a little bit surprised by the recoil. I'm guessing its a stock design issue, and of course, the solid metal buttplate doesn't help much :eek:

Thanks to all!
Dave
 
Without getting into the debate of the safety of firing a low number 1903 at all, let me point out that the rifle was built for the original 1906 load of a 150 grain spitzer bullet at 2700 fps.
That is a starting load with many current powders.
Lyman shows a 150 gr JSP + 48 gr IMR 4064 = 2695 fps at 36,000 CUP.
That is .30-40 Krag and .30-30 Win pressure.

Of course if you have a bad piece of brass and blow out the case head, 36000 will demolish the rifle and maybe you about as well as 50000 would have.

But unless that happens, you can have a mild load that will even shoot to the sights.
 
> let me point out that the rifle was built for the original 1906 load
> of a 150 grain spitzer bullet at 2700 fps.

Understood. The load I used was a 150 grain Speer spitzer boattail over 54 grains of H414. That's slightly over Hodgdon's minimum load of 53 grains but well under the 60 grain maximum.

Thanks!
Dave
 
Without getting into the debate of the safety of firing a low number 1903 at all, let me point out that the rifle was built for the original 1906 load of a 150 grain spitzer bullet at 2700 fps.

I have duplicated the load using a 150 SMK 47.5 grains IMR 4895, LC cases, standard primers. Modern factory loads push a 150 closer to 2900 fps and are much hotter than my load.

If you look at original period data, military 30-06 ammunition was usually in the lower 40K psia range, especially once good progressive powders became available.
 
03

blew up in front of some unfortunate.
Most of the recorded failures of 1903 receivers - less than 100 iirc - took place during WWI and not during the period between the wars or the time of reissue.

You are certainly correct about there being no non-destructive test to determine safety. The problem with the Marine "hammer test" is that the assumption is that a bad receiver will break at two hits. Maybe it will take three and the two hits just serve to weaken the thing.
Pete
 
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Hatcher lists 137 "accidents" from 1917-1929.
Of these, 68 were "burst receivers" and 23 were "blow back."
The rest were burst barrels except for the one poor guy who had a hangfire let go as he opened the bolt and one with no details at all.

As Slamfire has pointed out, all these occurred on military ranges over 12 years. Failures before or after that time, in combat or after surplus disposal are not included.

P.O. Ackley was of the opinion that the bolts were worse than the receivers and a low number action with a nickel steel bolt was adequate... with good ammo.

Henry Stebbins showed a low number receiver that had worn out three barrels and said that if the front guard screw boss on the recoil lug was not chipped, it was probably not a brittle gun.

Dave LeGate at Rifle and Handloader magazine sacrificed some number of low number actions to the hammer and drop test. Most if not all failed.
 
The whole single heat treatment episode was a shameful event, I don’t know just when the public was informed as to the dangers of the things, it was most certainly not until the early 1930’s, well after the Ordnance Department was forced to admit they had a problem in 1917.

Even though Hatcher does not give out “the number”, that is the estimated number of defective receivers in inventory, a number which any board would have had to give for their report to have any use to decision makers, there are some numbers which Hatcher provides which are very telling.

On page 222 of my Hatcher’s Notebook, it says: “In one of the experiments at Springfield Armory, 48 receivers were carefully re-heated, after which 16, or one-third, failed on high pressure test.”

The fact that two thirds of these receivers did not fail may give comfort to the fans of low number receivers. I don't consider that good odds. I hope if any fan boys have a low number burst in front of them, they will at least post the pictures and tell us what happened.

Dave LeGate at Rifle and Handloader magazine sacrificed some number of low number actions to the hammer and drop test. Most if not all failed.


An interesting but unexpected event that happened in that article was the shattering of a double heat treat receiver. The author held a nylon faced hammer in one hand and held the receivers in the other. All the receivers he hit fractured. Including the double heat treat receiver. There are others who have been compiling post Hatcher’s Notebook receiver failures, and it is my memory that one poster said he had a list of 128 double heat treats that had blown. Both the single heat treat and double heat treat receivers were made of the same, inferior low grade steels, and again, I am not confident of the process controls at the Armories. I was told that the forge shop workers were paid piece rate, so it would be in their economic interest to heat the billets up, to speed up the stamping process.
 
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So why was I called a liar when I said that I broke one of those SHT receivers with a hammer? The loudest were the Lyons fans (no, not fans of the Detroit NFL team) who claimed their idol had proved that such never happened and if it did it couldn't happen again.

Jim
 
Dr Lyon' analysis is deeply, if not fatally flawed.

Some Observations On The Failure Of U.S. Model 1903 Rifle Receivers
Joseph L. Lyon, M.D., M.P.H.

http://m1903.com/03rcvrfail/

Dr Lyon’s statistics are based on Hatcher’s Notebook which is not an all inclusive list of all 03 failures. Hatcher’s list starts 1917 and ends 1929. There are known failures after and known failures before.

I disagree with Dr Lyon’s risk percentages. His percentages are based on the total number of rifles built, not the rifles in use. There were about one million of these rifles built, but post WW1, there were never one million at service at any time. By the time you get to 1922 Congress authorized only 136,000 Officer’s and enlisted in the Regular Army. I could guess how many rifles were in service with an Army that small, and it sure would not be one million. Lets say, as a ridiculous example, that there were four rifles in use and the remaining one million in storage. Let also say that one of the four blew up. Dr Lyon’s analysis would give you the risk as one in a million. But for those rifles in use, it would be 25%.

Dr Lyon’s analysis also does not take into account the destruction of single heat treat receivers. As rifle came into depot, the Army scrapped these receivers. The population of these things liable to hurt someone just got smaller and smaller over time. Any risk calculation based on the total production is misleading because that is not the actual risk to the user. The user’s risk of harm is much higher. By what amount, I don’t know.


I am certain there are no databases extent which would allow the calculation of risk based on active duty rifles, but the Army had seen enough accidents and decided to take a course of action which would remove single heat treat receivers from the inventory.

Dr Lyon also says:


No receiver failures were reported in the training period before the battles, and during the four major battles that occurred in the seven month period in 1942-43. While it's not possible to estimate the exact number of rifles involved, up to 7,000 would have been in use by the three rifle regiments of the 1st Marine Division, Based on the failure rates of 1917-1918 between one and two rifle receivers would have been expected to fail.

Dr Lyon could not find any failure reports and is making the conclusion that absence proves no receivers failures. I disagree with this. The absence of records indicate the absence of records. That does not mean that there were never were records; their probably were. It is a known fact that Army Safety Incident reports are not released to the public, only Safety Investigators or Law Enforcement have access. But regardless, there are buildings full of records that the US Army and Marine Corp have right now which Dr Lyon will never see. These records will be disposed of by the lowest cost method which will guarantee the least embarrassment later. A better question for Dr Lyon to answer is just how long he maintains patient records and just where is that searchable database of medical malpractice. Since I have not ever found the second, I guess those estimates that medical mistakes kill 400,000 Americans per year must be wrong, no one dies!

And this leads into the greatest misuse of Hatcher’s List that Dr Lyons commits: he lets the statistics do the talking. These accidents are with people and it is people being hurt. Perhaps the accidental death rate caused by Physicians is so high that they get so callous that pain and suffering are just a statistic to them, but to those who are hurt, the pain is real, the injury permanent, and sometimes the suffering is lifelong. Hatcher's list is a list of people who were hurt and we should not diminish their misfortune as being equivalent to a coin toss or a roll of the dice.
 
Even if the Army did make reports in the between wars and WWII eras, it certainly made none after 1945. I have seen reports of receiver failure after that, but no one is keeping track - not the NRA or anyone else.

So Hatcher remains the sole source of any solid information and the only basis of any statistics.

Jim
 
Question

Hatcher’s list starts 1917 and ends 1929. There are known failures after and known failures before
Not arguing. Your knowledge of these things is much more comprehensive than mine. The question is about those known failures before and after Hatcher.
Where can I find that info? Where did you find it?

Years ago I was sold a low numbered 1903 by a gun shop. They never mentioned that there was any sort of advisory against firing and I certainly had not heard about that. It was my first centerfire rifle. I shot it for years.
Then, one day, a fellow at the range told me about the problem.
One of the things that I did was do a survey of production lots and recorded failures within those lots. The receiver in question had been made in 1905....a low number starting with 2......
There were no recorded failures of any receivers in that production lot.
Does that mean that the gun is safe? No, unfortunately.
It was noticeable that the rate of failure per lot increased as the date of production approached 1918.
Pete
 
There was another component to some M1903 rifle failures. Some really sorry .30 caliber ammunition was manufactured during WWI. Some of that substandard ammunition was still in inventory when WWII began.

The worst WWI .30 caliber ammunition was made by National Copper and Brass: The problem was very soft cartridge cases. Two Springfield M1903 rifles blew up at the National Copper and Brass plant while testing their own .30 caliber ammo.

The stuff is headstamped NC18. i have a numerous rounds of NC 18 given to me by the US Army ammunition inspector who got that ammuniton condemned.

BTW: There were many problems with US made ammunition during WWI. Artillery in bore prematures were much too frequent. To counter the problem with substandard ammunition, the US Army devised what is today known as the QUASAS program.

Some M1898 Mausers also have very brittle receivers.
 
The material and manufacturing processes used in the early Model 1903 were the same as those used in the [U.S.] Model 1898. There is some sort of idea that when the Army adopted a new rifle, Springfield Armory was cleaned out down to the walls, all the equipment and workers were replaced and everything started over from scratch. Not true. Not only did some parts lines and repair facilities continue unchanged, but even the production facilities were not uprooted.

All that was changed was the tooling, the jigs, fixtures, etc., and things like the marking stamps. The machines themselves for the most part were unchanged, the heat treatment and finishing processes were unchanged, most of the routing was unchanged. Workers required some retraining, but most were skilled and experienced, so that was not a "big deal". (Some had been at Springfield through the trapdoor era, maybe a few back to the musket time; they had all seen changes to the product. The M1903 was just one more change.)

So why didn't Krags "blow up"? Some did, and bolts were brittle. But the rimmed, low pressure cartridge, and generally less hectic production for both rifles and ammunition meant that the problem remained minor; to use an expression that the old workers would not have understood, it was "below the radar".

Jim
 
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