Sprawling subdivisions = future megalopolis = end to hunting?

Johnny, Allen's better half has seen over $50 million worth of billings that are "invested" there in the last year.

Their Marketing Director sez they'll have over $100 million in it when the project is completed.

You won't recognize the place!

I still think that it'll be tomorrow's Ghost Town--but, today.

Art
 
I disagree with the idea of this thread. Thinking that folk that hunt are going to vote in such a way as to even honor individual freedom is quite an irrational if not silly logical idea. Hunters are not necessarily pro-individual freedom. I'd bet not even a majority of hunters are pro-gun rights. I'm often shocked to find that many of the individuals on TFL don't belong to the NRA due to sloth.

If you want wide open spaces with little to no development, look to Africa. That continent has be populated longer than any other and has the least development, save Antartica. How many Democratic Repulics exist in Africa? Yet there are few large and developed urban areas and plenty of vastly wild and undeveloped areas. Look to Uganda. Sheesh, look at our northern friends in the PR of Kanada. How many hunters up there? How many individual freedoms?

It is truly good that we are developing our land to serve our uses. We build dams to prevent flooding and drought. This is good. America is advancing along.

Do I agree with all the manners in which people develop the land? No. Do I wish there were more open and wild spaces? Sure.

Just some thoughts,

MP Freeman
 
MP, about 25 yars back I worked in a land-use/environmental-protection program. We got to the point where jokes and cartoons abounded about "whose ox is gored", "striking ahappy medium", etc. The comment you made about hunters reminded me of the ox.

Lotsa bird hunters are unconcerned about "assault weapons" controls. Lotsa benchrest folks are unconcerned about handgun restrictions. (Not all, of course; not all!) I imagine lotsa deer hunters vote Democrat...

From reading, the problem with the undeveloped areas of Africa is dodging folks who want to kill Whitey.

Regardless of all that, hwoever, there has been an unending assault on individual liberties during my lifetime, and it continues unabated in both the War on Drugs and the War on Terrorism. We once had a good political system, particularly as regards the rest of the world (I've spent a good bit of time in 20 other countries.) but we seem to be headed off in the direction of Canada and/or Greater Europe.

Salt may have been somewhat erroneous in some of his assumptions, but he is correct in being concerned about the overall picture.

We have anti-hunters influencing policy on public lands, and some of the a-h crowd have jobs and influence within such as the BLM, Forest Service and the USF&WS. This is pushing more folks into private-lands hunting, where costs of leases or day-hunt fees have been rising.

It's less the actual urban sprawl covering up hunting lands than it is the voting strength of urban populations--where these populations understand very little of "Nature", etc.

Art
 
Art,

From reading, the problem with the undeveloped areas of Africa is dodging folks who want to kill Whitey.
Click to expand...

Africa is not only suffering from the "kill whitey" mentality, many africaners suffer from tribalistic mentality and collectivistic thinking. Even though they may live in wilderness areas and undeveloped countries. I don't see how having vast undeveloped areas in any nation leads to the people valuing and extolling individual freedom.

-------

I do agree full heartedly that our individual freedoms are under severe and dangerous assault. We are not on the path of Kanada or Sissy Europe, we are headed for one of two destinations. Most likely facism, or possibly communism. Just depends upon a few more pieces of legislation. However, I don't see how celebrating the state takeover of land as being productive towards the end of preserving freedom or of limiting government. Because as you posted, anti-freedom people are in positions of power in governmental beuracracies dealing with the management of public land. Abolish public land and the anti-freedom liberals have no influence. Public land is a terrible concept. Why should a majority of people determine how to spend the money I produce and earn? Isn't that slavery? Even if we are spending my money for more wilderness area? We fall into the trap of crushing individual rights of property, so others can have a place to hunt, so those hunters will respect individual rights! How is this working?

MP Freeman
 
Freeman,
If I only cared about my hunting and trapping rights,then I would much rather live in Canada.In polls I've seen most Canadians are okay with fur trapping.Canada will probably be the last 1st world country to ban hunting and trapping.
 
MP, to me, the value of vast areas of undeveloped lands is having a place where it's possible to have a respite from what I consider the "rabbit warrens" of major megalopoli. Elbow room and at least the illusion of "Unspoiled Nature".

"However, I don't see how celebrating the state takeover of land as being productive towards the end of preserving freedom or of limiting government." Hope I didn't imply that, or if I did my words came out all wonky.

If the state takes public lands out of development, that's most likely a short-term loss to private enterprises such as mining, timbering or ranching. The resource base will always be there. I don't celebrate such actions, but I take the long view as to the use of resources. Sort of a reverse curve: The anti-dam/reservoir folks grump that even if they manage to stop a project via politics, the site is still there.

To me, one's attitude toward RKBA is a litmus test which tells much about all the rest of a person's attitudes about life and government--and, to a great extent, vice versa. From that standpoint, the red/blue counties map is rather educational.

It seems to me that beginning with FDR and accelerating with LBJ, expansion of governmental powers and restrictions on rights and liberty has been ongoing through my lifetime. I feel that the once-proud rugged-individual American is pretty much almost gone, and our similar views/actions/efforts are merely holding actions in a losing war.

Art
 
To me, one's attitude toward RKBA is a litmus test which tells much about all the rest of a person's attitudes about life and government--and, to a great extent, vice versa. From that standpoint, the red/blue counties map is rather educational.
Click to expand...

Art, not only is that your attitude, it's mine as well. If a man is rationale and consistant, a person's view on RKBA is a logical outcome from one's fundamental or core beliefs.


It seems to me that beginning with FDR and accelerating with LBJ, expansion of governmental powers and restrictions on rights and liberty has been ongoing through my lifetime. I feel that the once-proud rugged-individual American is pretty much almost gone, and our similar views/actions/efforts are merely holding actions in a losing war.
Click to expand...

No doubt. The communistg manifesto is being fulfilled every year under either Republican or Democratic leadership. Democrats just do it faster and in the open. Twenty years ago, it was a serious consideration about pulling out of the UN. Today that is an extemist nut-case idea. Republicans used to run and win with it. And Abolishing the Income tax was another real winner, today we are lucky to get a 3% decrease in income tax rates.

I could go on and on and on.....but ultimately, your right. We are in a losing battle using the tactics of "hold your nose and vote Bush". And the other sad truth is that if you vote libertarian, you're voting Democratic in national elections.

About the concern of increased metro-areas, it's a sign of progress and prosperity that we can conquer and control nature instead of nature enslaving us. But I agree fully that with that comes the increasing collectivist morality and worldview. The rugged individualistic worldview is an AMerican rural and suburban phenomenon. I don't think such an individualistic and freedom loving worldview exists in any noticable quantity anywhere else in the world.

I'm out of here, this post is depressing me.

Best Regards,
MPFreeman
 
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