son, fiancee and my wife stopped in roadblock

[zxcvbob]

A == "articulable"

 

[NavyLT]

And I don't know that running the number of the gun is a violation of your rights, either. Running your license plate, VIN number, or driver's license number is commonly done, with out asking for your permission.

Vehicles are required to be properly titled and registered in order to be operated on public streets. License plate numbers and VIN numbers are in plain sight. Since the VIN numbers and license plates are in plain sight and since the vehicle is on a public road for which registration is required to operate, it is not a violation of the 4th amendment to check to see if the vehicle is properly titled and licensed. Driver's are required to be licensed on public roads and state laws require drivers to produce licenses when stopped and asked by LEO.

The serial number of the gun is a completely different matter altogether. The serial number of the gun is not in plain sight. It requires action on the part of the officer to search for it to obtain it. In this case there was no reasonable articulable suspicion (RAS) to suspect that the firearm was stolen. In most states that don't have gun registration, that is the only reason to check the serial number of the gun. So what you end up with is a specific action taken by an officer to search for evidence of a crime that they have no RAS has occurred.

Some will argue that the serial number comes into plain sight when the officer takes possession of the gun "for officer safety." I call B.S. I hand you my gun... now quick - don't look - tell me what the serial number is! Oh.... you have to look for it, because every model of gun has a number that is in a different place and is so small that you actually have to look the gun over to find it and read it.

 

[BlueTrain]

I'm not sure if anyone realizes it or not but we arrived at this point because 40 years ago "law and order" was a political issue and a certain president won running on that subject. That was a time of a political backlash from conservatives who saw the liberalism of the day as having run amok. And true, there had been a lot of riots and serious ones, too. I imagine people didn't like the idea of liberals having guns or something. In fact, in a photo of the staff of the old Whole Earth Catalog, one guy in the photo is holding a Marlin lever action. And that was in San Francisco.

What goes around, comes around, I guess. Be careful what you wish for.

 

[johns7022]

Your car was searched because 'officer safety' trumps civil rights these days...

DUI checkpoints don't stand up to 'reasonable search and seizure' in all states...Reagan did the executive order for no knoock search warrants and usuing military on US soil for drug interdiction..he also put in the CA no carry laws when he was govr. Bush Sr did the original assaul weapons ban...

Your rights are not inalienable, they are given to you under the pretext that you have rights, when the powers that be decide that your rights are getting in the way of thier agenda or maintaining public order, they are usurped...just like gun grabbing in New Orleans during Katrina.

Get used to it.....you guys bought off on two wars to fight terrorism, you guys keep voting in peeps that take away your rights to feel safe...etc ect..

This is what you get...checkpoints...just like in China and Russia during the days of communism.

Checkpoints aren't so much about DUIs, but control...they check where you are going...for drugs, for warrants, for weapons, for revenue to give tickets...etc...

Remember this when you decide to vote for more law enforcement funding....

 

[hogdogs]

I blatantly do a u-turn while in line and then when pulled, I tell them I wasn't interested in participate in their Nazi re-enactment display... I do not feel that my actions are PC for search. So long as the U-Turn is legal...

Brent

 

[Glenn E. Meyer]

From my august position - we are going nowhere, politics and Nazis?

Running the gun is unconstitutional?

Someone go ask a civil rights lawyer and come back with a real opinion. Call the ACLU - let me know. Or one of our real lawyers - PM me.

Closed till then.

 

[44 AMP]

Some will argue that the serial number comes into plain sight when the officer takes possession of the gun "for officer safety." I call B.S. I hand you my gun... now quick - don't look - tell me what the serial number is! Oh.... you have to look for it, because every model of gun has a number that is in a different place and is so small that you actually have to look the gun over to find it and read it.

I see your point, but I have to wonder, officer in posession of the gun, "examines it", in the course of unloading it (to ensure it is safe, and controlled) seeing the ser#. Does this constitute searching or looking for it?

And is running the serial # (to see if reported stolen) of property in police hands (legally held, if only briefly) without permission of the person it was taken from actually a violation of 4th Amendment rights? Or, if it does, is it one of the things we accept daily, as a matter of course?

What I mean is, do we just accept it because its a gun? or would you carrying a tv, or other "unusual" item down the sidewalk (or in your car) at 11pm, (and failing to provide what the officer considered a valid, reasonable explanation) be RAS to run the ser#? Allow the officer to "look" for the number?

We may be splitting legal hairs here, I just don't know. TO me, common sense says if they take it (however briefly) they are going to run the number. But is this actually a violation of our rights? Or just ordinary SOP for police, allowed (or tolerated) under the law?