Something went wrong.....

It wasn't from a weak bolt, I think the case failed. Probably from being loaded a second, third or...? time.

It sucks but it does happen, OP is lucky that he wasn't hurt. Hopefully the factory will give what's left of his rifle the ok and he'll just have to replace a few parts.
 
As before... given the sequence and repeatability in the same bullet lot, powder bottle, loading sequence and it not being an obstruction which would have blow the action/barrel...

Hard bolt closure is invariably a sizing issue, not bullet/lands engagement (and the camming action is hardly felt)
Nothing even close to 42.5gr/IMR4895 -- even using a 178gr AMAX -- will produce more than the low-mid 50's ksi (QL)

case head failure.
 
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mehavey said:
This is not a bullet-in-the-lands problem.
That's +10% pressure at most.

Barrel obstruction would have blown the barrel, not just blown the case.

Since you shot prior rounds from same loading lot, hardly likely it was wrong powder;
Primers look totally normal.

I'm thinking defective case/brass head failure -- entire/statistically plausible w/ military brass.
Once 60,000 psi gets loose at all, no matter how,... lotsa excitement.


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Click to expand...
Over the years, I have separated quite a few pcs of Wby brass at the belt and never had very much excitement.
 
Brass separation (generally enclosed at least in part within the chamber walls) rarely causes that much excitement as compared to blowing the exposed head (outside those chamber walls).





BTW... are you fully sizing those Wthrby cases, or using a comparator to size just off the shoulder ?


.
 
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mehavey said:
Brass separation (generally enclosed at least in part within the chamber walls) rarely causes that much excitement as compared to blowing the exposed head (outside those chamber walls).





BTW... are you fully sizing those Wthrby cases, or using a comparator to size just off the shoulder ?


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Click to expand...
Most of this happened many, many years ago when I was full length sizing.
 
Unclenick, thanks for posting the picture.

Now that I can see what happened....that was extremely high pressure. I would recommend checking every charge of powder as you pull the bullets from the remaining loads. If you see a large variation in powder weight, I would bet it was a detonation due to a very light charge. Check bullet weights and diameter as well. Let us know what you find out. And thanks for posting your experience. It is a good reminder of what can happen.
 
I did that once. I was loading cast bullets in my Remington 700 VL with WW296. I was also loading jacketed with 748. I was actually chronographging my loads when the first one sprayed me in the face with powder. Chrono read 4,000 fps. I took the rifle home and used a block of wood and hammer to open the bolt . The bolt handle broke off. I sent the rifle to Remington. I sent a letter stating what I thought happened. I then pulled the bullets and weighed the charge and bullets. It was a 55 grain bullet with a Jacketed portion of WW 296. Once I figured that out, I wrote a letter to Remington explaining exactly what I had done. They fixed my rifle, new bolt and barrel for free and returned it to me.

Now there is only one can of powder in my reloading area.

David
 
This wasn't a case failure.
It was an EXTREME over-pressure event.
Click to expand...
We've established that:
- The powder charge was pretty much a case filler 97%
- The powder was Same Lot/Same Loading session
- The bullet was right diameter (OP: neck wouldn't chamber otherwise)
- The bullet engaging the lands doesn't raise pressures in extreme
- The primers were the same/in same loading session (and wouldn't raise pressures in extreme)
- Barrel obstruction would have blown the barrel
- Even the next heavier bullet (178gr)/42.5gr IMR4895 is barely 53ksi (in a 62ksi cartridge)

.......

Once you eliminate the impossible, whatever remains, no matter how improbable, must be the truth.
-
 
Couple of points I'm going to make that might be off topic.

1. Incredibly brave/stout/undauntable to come onto a new site and your first post is you blew up a rifle.
2. Incredibly polite/respectful of the existing posters to NOT make the op feel bad.
3. Incredible amount of good technical information and speculation of what might have gone wrong.

I suspect there are others following this thread like I am.

I reload but the technical expertise here is way, way beyond me. I hope the members posting here realize folk like me appreciate they way they are responding to the op and also appreciate the information being given.

Once again "The Firing Line" is an exceptional place.
 
308 Winchester proof loads producing up to 74,,000 cup (88,000 psi) often have no signs of that pressure on cases. I've fired dozens of 7.62 NATO proof loads with similar pressures and the fired cases look quite the same as service loads.
 
Sooooo...what caused the destruction? I’m guessing it was either a short load of powder, leading to detonation, or the wrong powder. I’m betting on the first guess.
 
I 2nd the motion to carefully dismantle the remaining rounds so as to not lose any powder and weigh each charge. While it could be this and it could be that, it would be wise to continue the investigation in the hopes of becoming certain of what and how this happened. Examine the appearance of the powder closely in comparison with a sample of the correct powder to see if it doesn't look quite identical.
Can you imagine the uncertainty leaving you in doubt every time you pull the trigger? "Is it gonna blow up, or will I just yank the trigger and completely throw a wild shot?" Having confidence in your ammo is so important.
 
mehavey said:
We've established that:
- The powder charge was pretty much a case filler 97%
- The powder was Same Lot/Same Loading session
- The bullet was right diameter (OP: neck wouldn't chamber otherwise)
- The bullet engaging the lands doesn't raise pressures in extreme
- The primers were the same/in same loading session (and wouldn't raise pressures in extreme)
- Barrel obstruction would have blown the barrel
- Even the next heavier bullet (178gr)/42.5gr IMR4895 is barely 53ksi (in a 62ksi cartridge)
Click to expand...
This is the internet. Nothing has been established.

At best, all we can go on are the photos. And those photos indicate an EXTREME over-pressure event.
That rifle saw in excess of 100,000 psi.
Based on the bolt damage and description, I would lean toward even more pressure and a very rapid pressure spike.

The OP can believe and deny what he wants and post what he wants. But the bottom line is that there was something in that cartridge that was just a gnat's behind shy of KABOOM!

That case was not filled with IMR4895 - not exclusively, at least.**


If you want my honest opinion...
That cartridge was not "#28 in the case of 100."
It was #1.**
I could be wrong. But I don't think so.
The rest of the details were pulled from thin air and reloading manuals, after the fact.

More on my, certainly to be considered, "outlandish and unreasonable," opinion...

Gun powder is gun powder, right?
"Forty one ninety eight" is the same as "forty eight ninety five" ... right?
It wouldn't be the first time I've seen an unhappy ending resulting from such thoughts.

Coincidentally... QuickLoad thinks that 4198 (H or IMR) is right in the pressure window for my estimated chamber pressure with a 178 gr ELD-X.

If it was a lighter bullet, 4227 would do the job (if ignoring other brands and sticking with H/IMR).


**This could be incorrect if everything was loaded on the Dillon seen in the background, with cartridges randomly packaged out of the hopper, and pistol ammunition having been loaded beforehand without a proper cleaning of the powder measure.

Bottom line:
Wrong powder. Contaminated powder. Bad powder.

Case failures are failures. "Pop, hiss, carbon residue."
What those images show are damage to steel, and EXTRUDED brass. Cartridge brass, depending upon composition, generally doesn't extrude even a moderate amount until pressures exceeds at least 75k-80k psi.
Cartridge brass, as depicted in the provided photo, doesn't do that crap until you see 95,000+ psi for the weak alloys.

You see how the original head stamp is completely erased from that case head? That's because the case head was extruded. Case failures don't result in extrusion.
 
FWIW, I think, and have been thinking all along, that FrankenMauser is purity dang close in his analysis of the powder being the cause of this incident.

Only the OP can prove any of it, though. I have witnessed 2 blow ups of this nature and upon follow up, it was a powder mis-match in both incidents.
 
Originally Posted by mehavey
We've established that:
- The powder charge was pretty much a case filler 97%
- The powder was Same Lot/Same Loading session
- The bullet was right diameter (OP: neck wouldn't chamber otherwise)
- The bullet engaging the lands doesn't raise pressures in extreme
- The primers were the same/in same loading session (and wouldn't raise pressures in extreme)
- Barrel obstruction would have blown the barrel
- Even the next heavier bullet (178gr)/42.5gr IMR4895 is barely 53ksi (in a 62ksi cartridge)
Frankenmauser said:
This is the internet. Nothing has been established.
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
Frankenmauser,

The only thing we know, is what the OP said.
What he did may be up to question.

But if he did as he said, then there aren't a whole lotta unknowns -- save the condition of the head on that piece of brass.

If the OP did as you think -- mix up the powder -- then pulling and comparing ought to tell the tale.
 
mehavey said:
- Barrel obstruction would have blown the barrel
Click to expand...

Only in certain positions. Read Hatcher's Notebook on gun blowups. He cites an experiment done during WWI, IIRC, in which a bullet was pounded into the throat of a rifle and a loaded round put in behind it and fired. Despite high-pressure signs, the gun shot both slugs out of the barrel. Same with the obstructing bullet an inch deeper, etc. until it was three inches deep. That blew up the gun. The trick seemed to be to get enough velocity in the bullet fired from the cartridge and in the powder and propellant gasses behind it to make momentum transfer to the obstructing bullet to bring it up to speed and impossibly fast event. Only then did the obstructing bullet act as an immovable block and the inertia in the second bullet, propellant mass and gasses piled up against the sudden stop to upset the bullets outward and to create a very high-pressure zone behind it.
 
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