Some cowboys oh brother...
- Thread starter hartcreek
- Start date
B.L.E says:
Sir, I beg to differ. 1st topic:
One must discern the difference between between SBH's. An original 3-screw (unmodified by the Ruger factory and their litigation concerns about idiots who load all 6 chambers) is a completely different pistol than the New Model SBH pistols. No comparison. I had one that is in the hands of my son as I have no need for it any longer. Check the prices out because Ruger hasn't made them for about 4 decades.
Insofar as the Pietta's are concerned, Pietta, Uberti, ASM, ASP, GLB, Navy Arms (importer), Replica Arms (importer), FIE (importer), EIG (importer), et al: given the different varieties (1851 Navy, Colt Pocket, 1858 Rem, Patterson, Colt Dragoon, L&R, G&G, and any other variations, whether historical or not (a .44 brass Navy, et al): These are ALL collector items but in a different genre than you are willing to respect.
Respectfully,
Jim
Sir, I beg to differ. 1st topic:
One must discern the difference between between SBH's. An original 3-screw (unmodified by the Ruger factory and their litigation concerns about idiots who load all 6 chambers) is a completely different pistol than the New Model SBH pistols. No comparison. I had one that is in the hands of my son as I have no need for it any longer. Check the prices out because Ruger hasn't made them for about 4 decades.
Insofar as the Pietta's are concerned, Pietta, Uberti, ASM, ASP, GLB, Navy Arms (importer), Replica Arms (importer), FIE (importer), EIG (importer), et al: given the different varieties (1851 Navy, Colt Pocket, 1858 Rem, Patterson, Colt Dragoon, L&R, G&G, and any other variations, whether historical or not (a .44 brass Navy, et al): These are ALL collector items but in a different genre than you are willing to respect.
Respectfully,
Jim
horseman308
New member
I can relate. My great uncle had a muzzleloading shotgun, an antique that was probably built for the fur trade or something along those lines. He carved his initials into every single part of that gun - buttstock, lock plates, ram rod pipes, friend, all of it. All I can think is that he grew up during the depression era, so it would have been important to him that his property was clearly marked. But it certainly did detract from the...aura...of that gun.
Driftwood Johnson
New member
Oh Please!
Did the gun belong to the original owner? Was it his property to do with as he pleased? Was it a valuable antique that had its value decimated because he defaced it?
I've bought lots of guns over the years that were 'personalized' by their owners. If I didn't want the gun, complete with personalization, I wouldn't have bought it.
I have always wondered who 'Tuffy' was ever since I bought this old Smith.
One of my Colts had notches carved into the grip by some previous owner. Dunno how many bad guys he killed with it.
A bunch of years ago I personalized my Uberti 1873 by having my alias engraved on the dustcover. Of course, I bought an extra dustcover so that in case I ever sell the gun, I will put the unmarked dustcover on it.
Did the gun belong to the original owner? Was it his property to do with as he pleased? Was it a valuable antique that had its value decimated because he defaced it?
I've bought lots of guns over the years that were 'personalized' by their owners. If I didn't want the gun, complete with personalization, I wouldn't have bought it.
I have always wondered who 'Tuffy' was ever since I bought this old Smith.
One of my Colts had notches carved into the grip by some previous owner. Dunno how many bad guys he killed with it.
A bunch of years ago I personalized my Uberti 1873 by having my alias engraved on the dustcover. Of course, I bought an extra dustcover so that in case I ever sell the gun, I will put the unmarked dustcover on it.
North East Redneck
New member
I haven't modified any of my guns in a personal way, but if a person wants to, go for it. I would likely not purchase a gun that has been personalized. My ¢.02.
Consider the "provenance" of a historic firearm personalized by its owner,
As in maybe a Billy the Kid revolver with notches carved in it.
Maybe someone like Crazy Horse or Mariano Medina put brass tacks in his stock.
As a toolmaker,I appreciate a firearm as a Tool.
I do have my limits,there are a lot of firearms I would not mod.
Funny,if I take a resurrected receiver and do as honest of a job of restoration to a historical piece as I can...some criticize me for creating a fake.
My older,1970's vintage Super Black Hawk came with a 7 1/2 in bbl.
Sitting in my pickup with it in the holster,it held my right butt cheekup of the seat and bent my spine.
I think Elmer was right,that a bbl length of about 5 in is good.
I got the hacksaw out.Funny thing,a few other folks who shot it,got their hacksaws out,too.
Its a fact Elmer scrapped a fair number of fine handguns.Yet he pioneered advancements we take for granted.
When we defend the 2nd Amendment,we rationally declare the firearm an inanimate object.
But then some of us project some magical ,spiritual entity on them.
Its OK to do that,enjoy however you wish.
But I can't understand criticizing another person for modding a firearm (so long as it is safe) that is his property.
Its no different than shortening a shovel handle or a Hi-Lift Jack.
And if I decide I don't like the shorter barrel,I can buy a Douglas or a Kreiger or whatever and thread and fit it.
I have been "that guy" at the factory who runs the lathe or the mill or the broach or whatever that makes the parts.
I have made some pretty inticate gun parts,like the safety linkage to a Luigi Franchi double,that was a complex stamping.I machined it out of a solid block.A smith I knew needed a lower tang for a Winder Musket.I made three.
Rolling block extractors? I have made several.(Please,no PM requests,I'm not in the business of making parts)
I have also made Muzzle loaders where I started from a raw blank for a stock,a blank for a barrel,and a Siler kit for a lock.I forged and made the trigger guard,trigger,etc other parts.
For myself,once I had the skills,experience,and confidence...
Any commercially available firearm,or old basketcase from under a bench is just something to work with to make what I want.
Consider this,I'm sure it will be controversial.
I had a woman friend who was interested in hunting.She had an old Glenfield 30-30 that was backing out primers about 1/32 in.Just a little headspace problem.
I put her together a 7-08 on a Mex Mauser with a Garrett Accra-Lite stock.
She hated it!!!.Because she was a horse woman who liked wood and steel lever actions.
I saw a sav 99 in 300 Sav,full length rifle.Good price,decent shape.She was about 5ft 6 in.
I shortened the bbl and stock,drilled and tapped it,and put a Leupold Gold Ring 4X on it.
I made her snap cap dummy rounds,drilled cases and Flexane filled primer pockets.I told her to dry fire.I took her shooting.Over a rest,she was shooting groups under 2 in at 100 yds.
She went hunting with her family,got her deer.
She is proud of her rifle,and will never sell it.
You might think I commited a travesty by cutting an old 99.I don't care.
I turned it into HER RIFLE,not your rifle.And it mattered.To her.
As in maybe a Billy the Kid revolver with notches carved in it.
Maybe someone like Crazy Horse or Mariano Medina put brass tacks in his stock.
As a toolmaker,I appreciate a firearm as a Tool.
I do have my limits,there are a lot of firearms I would not mod.
Funny,if I take a resurrected receiver and do as honest of a job of restoration to a historical piece as I can...some criticize me for creating a fake.
My older,1970's vintage Super Black Hawk came with a 7 1/2 in bbl.
Sitting in my pickup with it in the holster,it held my right butt cheekup of the seat and bent my spine.
I think Elmer was right,that a bbl length of about 5 in is good.
I got the hacksaw out.Funny thing,a few other folks who shot it,got their hacksaws out,too.
Its a fact Elmer scrapped a fair number of fine handguns.Yet he pioneered advancements we take for granted.
When we defend the 2nd Amendment,we rationally declare the firearm an inanimate object.
But then some of us project some magical ,spiritual entity on them.
Its OK to do that,enjoy however you wish.
But I can't understand criticizing another person for modding a firearm (so long as it is safe) that is his property.
Its no different than shortening a shovel handle or a Hi-Lift Jack.
And if I decide I don't like the shorter barrel,I can buy a Douglas or a Kreiger or whatever and thread and fit it.
I have been "that guy" at the factory who runs the lathe or the mill or the broach or whatever that makes the parts.
I have made some pretty inticate gun parts,like the safety linkage to a Luigi Franchi double,that was a complex stamping.I machined it out of a solid block.A smith I knew needed a lower tang for a Winder Musket.I made three.
Rolling block extractors? I have made several.(Please,no PM requests,I'm not in the business of making parts)
I have also made Muzzle loaders where I started from a raw blank for a stock,a blank for a barrel,and a Siler kit for a lock.I forged and made the trigger guard,trigger,etc other parts.
For myself,once I had the skills,experience,and confidence...
Any commercially available firearm,or old basketcase from under a bench is just something to work with to make what I want.
Consider this,I'm sure it will be controversial.
I had a woman friend who was interested in hunting.She had an old Glenfield 30-30 that was backing out primers about 1/32 in.Just a little headspace problem.
I put her together a 7-08 on a Mex Mauser with a Garrett Accra-Lite stock.
She hated it!!!.Because she was a horse woman who liked wood and steel lever actions.
I saw a sav 99 in 300 Sav,full length rifle.Good price,decent shape.She was about 5ft 6 in.
I shortened the bbl and stock,drilled and tapped it,and put a Leupold Gold Ring 4X on it.
I made her snap cap dummy rounds,drilled cases and Flexane filled primer pockets.I told her to dry fire.I took her shooting.Over a rest,she was shooting groups under 2 in at 100 yds.
She went hunting with her family,got her deer.
She is proud of her rifle,and will never sell it.
You might think I commited a travesty by cutting an old 99.I don't care.
I turned it into HER RIFLE,not your rifle.And it mattered.To her.
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Agreed.
Fair to say I would not coach gun a Parker,NID,LC,etc.
A Savage 311? Maybe.
I'd be unlikely to mod an original Ithaca 37,but if I (as I did) buy a cigar box basket case Ithaca 37,IMO,its OK to make my own 8 shot tube out of seamless DOM tubing,and retro some generic Numrich Hi-Standard bbl,etc.
IMO,I breathed life into junk.
I have made my OK/Mediocre vintage 70's Randall Commander clone into a far better handgun.I absolutely believe the mods I've made to offshore 1911 clones,like SA Milspec or the Philippine clones,are improvements.
I do not have customers.I'm not in the business.I have projects.Pure amateur.
For some perpective,I read an article about Holland and Holland.The spokesperson for Holland and Holland said that they found the typical American perspective on modifying an original bizarre.
The whole point of having an H+H built is that it fits the shooter.
If that gun is bought by another shooter,unmodified it will likely be an ill fitting suit.
Alteration,in the opinion of H+H,is a necessity,not an atrocity.
Of course,its best if H+H or at least a qualified artisan does it.
And I think we all agree,the sum total of all the Bubba indiscretions is nothing compared to the chop saws,shears,crushers,etc that have destroyed many thousands of fine firearms via government directives.
Fair to say I would not coach gun a Parker,NID,LC,etc.
A Savage 311? Maybe.
I'd be unlikely to mod an original Ithaca 37,but if I (as I did) buy a cigar box basket case Ithaca 37,IMO,its OK to make my own 8 shot tube out of seamless DOM tubing,and retro some generic Numrich Hi-Standard bbl,etc.
IMO,I breathed life into junk.
I have made my OK/Mediocre vintage 70's Randall Commander clone into a far better handgun.I absolutely believe the mods I've made to offshore 1911 clones,like SA Milspec or the Philippine clones,are improvements.
I do not have customers.I'm not in the business.I have projects.Pure amateur.
For some perpective,I read an article about Holland and Holland.The spokesperson for Holland and Holland said that they found the typical American perspective on modifying an original bizarre.
The whole point of having an H+H built is that it fits the shooter.
If that gun is bought by another shooter,unmodified it will likely be an ill fitting suit.
Alteration,in the opinion of H+H,is a necessity,not an atrocity.
Of course,its best if H+H or at least a qualified artisan does it.
And I think we all agree,the sum total of all the Bubba indiscretions is nothing compared to the chop saws,shears,crushers,etc that have destroyed many thousands of fine firearms via government directives.
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Historical figures are one thing, anonymous bubbas are another. I personally love guns that have been modified. Often times it can be reversed and I can get a good deal since other buyers are likely to shy away. If it's only cosmetic, I get a good (albeit ugly) shooter. My guns are all shooters anyway and I don't worry about getting a scratch on an already ugly gun.