Sobriety Checkpoints....

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JimDiver

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I was stopped at a DUI check point tonight. I am saddened that these things exist.

I just refused to say anything and handed over my reg, license, and proof of insurance. He asked a few questions which I refused to answer and let me move on.

How do you handle these things? Is it just me or does it resemble Nazi Germany and the old USSR?
 
I personally don't mind being inconvenienced if the police are trying to keep drunks or other impared drivers off the streets. I usually answer their questions with a minimum of input on my part. I don't appreciate being delayed on my way somewhere, but if the roadblocks keep even one drunk or impared driver from killing a family or someone, I can see how they serve a valuable function to the community.
 
Got in one a few months ago on my way back to the terminal . Big sign stated what was happening . A TON of cops all around the goings on . Also a TON of people making U-turns and hauling azz to find another way . No one bothered to chase them down . I guess that after you chip in for donuts you lose out if you leave for any reason .
 
Yeah I agree, They are good for something. What i don't like is when they take someone out of the line at random and ask to search their vehicle. They were doing one at 12 noon. And no it was not a holiday. Officer was quite friendly said they were doing a dui check
and if i hadn't been drinking i should be fine. i chuckled and smiled as i said i hadn't. I mean damn it was noon for christ sake. And he smiled handed me back my id and let me on my way. but i observed other officers searching vehicles in the elks lodge lot. The scene i remember most is a mother was utting her station wagon back together after they had searched it. if she had been drinking and driving she would not have had any free hands to this. There were at least 8 other cars doing the same thing. Now if they had asked me to randomly search MY vehicle we would have had a serious conversation about the situation. While I realize the drug dog would soon be visiting my vehicle, it would very quickly be directed to another sad soul being victimized by a random vehicle search. While i would be on my way home to write a letter to the editor about the nonsense of searching moms family car after seeing clearly she has done nothing wrong...at noon. If it were just one or two cars i may not be so annoyed but that was not the case. More than that i have only 30 mins lunch. That short delay in fact made me late.

There should be a limit to when and where they do these checks. Nothing unreasonable just make sense.
 
DUI Checkpoints

Unreasonable? - why the comparison to Nazi Germany??? Saddened by having to put up with this type of government intrusion?

Lets ask the @ 17,000 people that are killer by DWI drivers every year.

Or the family members that have to deal with the aftermath of a loved one killed or injured by the impaired driver.

Or the hundreds of millions of dollars wasted and tied up in civil remedies, the cost and burden to the medical professionals who deal with this.

Drunk drivers are operating motor vehicles 24 - 7.

It's not OK to operate a motor vehicle impaired - ever - at anytime. Some seem to think it is. I have zero tolerance for impaired drivers, there are just to many options for not getting behind the wheel.

12-34hom
 
It's not OK to operate a motor vehicle impaired - ever - at anytime. Some seem to think it is. I have zero tolerance for impaired drivers, there are just to many options for not getting behind the wheel.
No one claims it's okay...however, when it comes to random checks, there is such a thing as the forgotten and court-trampled fourth amendment...
 
They have had these things in modern Germany too; although not necessarily anything to do with sobriety tests - the norm there as far back as the late 1970s.

Look forward to them being expanded here too, as the blueprint for "national security" is based on ever increasing system of "controls". These "sobriety checkpoints" are just a primer.
 
however, when it comes to random checks, there is such a thing as the forgotten and court-trampled fourth amendment...
So, its much better to let drunks and impared drivers have free reighn of our highways?

Unreasonable searches and seizures is one thing. But I bet you every one of those people mentioned before in this thread that were getting their vehicles searched was because the motorist chose to give up their rights.

Police have asked me before at stops if they could search my vehicle. I said no every time, and everytime I was allowed to go on my way without a search. They always also ask the standard questions "where are you going?" "where have you been?" "Have you been consuming alcohaulic beverages" "Are there any illegal drugs or weapons in the vehicle." Only an idiot would admit to being drunk in a vehicle, or admit to having illegal drugs or weapons in the car. After saying no twice and explaining where I was, and where I'm going, I was allowed to go on my way. And as mentioned before, you are not even obliged to answer the officers questions.

Unreasonable searches and seizures? I don't think so.
 
If you want to discourage drunk driving - start imposing real penalties on people that do and get caught with the standard PC, stop and test - and leave everyone else alone.
 
So, its much better to let drunks and impared drivers have free reighn of our highways?
Whoever said that? I certainly didn't...kindly elucidate, hopefully with a sound constitutionally based argument
 
What makes you think the cops were stopping the cars randomly? If they were, they were doing it wrong and the stops were unconstitutional. In order for a DUI checkpoint to be legal, they have to stop every car, or, for instance, every other car, or every tenth car, etc.....Once they stop the car, I'm not sure if they can "randomly" ask whoever they want to submit to a consent search, but to stop them to begin with, it can't be random.
 
Why elidicate? We both agree that having impared drivers on the roads is a bad thing. I believe the question is if having sobriety checkpoints to keep drivers off the road is unconstitutional, specifically in regards to the fourth amendment. "Unreasonable" searches and seizures, is a broad undefined statement in my way of thinking. Anyone being questioned by the police at any time could be construed as unreasonable. I, however am not opposed to being delayed for 15 minutes or so, every once in a while, in order to keep some impared drivers off the roads. Are you?

What exactly is your argument anyway? You say that you don't want to be stopped, but you also don't want impared drivers on the road. It looks to me like your trying to ride both sides of the fence. Perhaps you have another solution to keeping impared drivers off the road that has not yet been voiced.
 
Well, the Fourth states: The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.

That's pretty direct...where's the probable cause, or oath or affirmation in a random check?

Just axin'
 
Unreasonable? - why the comparison to Nazi Germany??? Saddened by having to put up with this type of government intrusion?

Because checkpoints were around in Nazi Germany.

Lets ask the @ 17,000 people that are killer by DWI drivers every year.

You can't because they are dead. But lets face it, The politicians make too much money from the liquor lobby. If they didn't, or if they gave a damn about stopping drunk drivers, all but the first non injury DWI would be a felony with prison time.

Or the family members that have to deal with the aftermath of a loved one killed or injured by the impaired driver.

See above.

Or the hundreds of millions of dollars wasted and tied up in civil remedies, the cost and burden to the medical professionals who deal with this.

See above.

Drunk drivers are operating motor vehicles 24 - 7.

See above.

It's not OK to operate a motor vehicle impaired - ever - at anytime. Some seem to think it is. I have zero tolerance for impaired drivers, there are just to many options for not getting behind the wheel.

Agree. Tell it to the politicians who are paid off to keep the laws lax.


Remember, those that sacrifce freedom for security shall have neither.
 
In most states, as far as I'm aware, your operation of a motor vehicle upon the highway is not a right, but a privliege. You pay fees for permits to do so (license, registration) and those permits come with specific requirements, such as producing your operator's permit upon request, etc. Many states have even made licensing a requirement for bicycles, motorized bikes and so forth (with some kind of sticker to "register" the vehicle instead of a plate).

Thus your "rights" when operating an auto are subject to restrictions you wouldn't face as a pedestrian.

It's not OK to operate a motor vehicle impaired - ever - at anytime. Some seem to think it is. I have zero tolerance for impaired drivers, there are just to many options for not getting behind the wheel.

Defined impaired. My job requires me to occasionally work nights if paged. I may also have a 9am meeting the next day and I have driven to work yapping & yawning the entire 35 miles. Coming home is worse after a busy day. Certainly being tired or drowsy is "impaired". Is that worth a conviction? If so, are you going to require businesses to pay cab fare for employees? Or require companies to allow people 8 hours of sleep?

My brother continued to work as much as he could while his oldest son was hospitalized with Lukemia. I'm sure his mind wasn't always on driving, especially after they said it was terminal. Is that "impaired" too? Keep in mind that any LEO could claim you were driving "impaired" in those cases and there's no way for you to prove otherwise.

What makes you think the cops were stopping the cars randomly? If they were, they were doing it wrong and the stops were unconstitutional. In order for a DUI checkpoint to be legal, they have to stop every car, or, for instance, every other car, or every tenth car, etc.....Once they stop the car, I'm not sure if they can "randomly" ask whoever they want to submit to a consent search, but to stop them to begin with, it can't be random.
If their queue will hold 8 cars, then the cops can fill that queue with the next 8 cars coming along. As long as they have a written procedure that says when the queue is down to 3, 4 or 5 cars they can grab the next few cars to fill the queue, then the courts have deemed that acceptable. Or they can stop every car, every other car, etc. The part that is stupid IMO is that if the next car is an "odd" car that should be waved through but it's full of wild twenty-somethings looking like partying frat-boys they can't stop them (unless some idiot holds up a vodka bottle or something).

They always also ask the standard questions "where are you going?" "where have you been?" "Have you been consuming alcohaulic beverages" "Are there any illegal drugs or weapons in the vehicle." Only an idiot would admit to being drunk in a vehicle, or admit to having illegal drugs or weapons in the car.
"None of your business" is probably the most correct answer to the first two questions. But a response of "I don't need to answer that." is probably more politcally correct. To the beverage question I've always like "No, but I just ate a garlic bratwurst if you want a breath sample." :D

You'd be surprised what responses you get to the "drugs or weapons" question. Lots of idiots just give themselves away because they're so nervous. Personally, I interpret that as "any illegal drugs or illegal weapons in the car?" and since I don't own any illegal weapons it's amusing. But responding (in today's climate) with "uh...you mean non-nuclear, right?" will probably mean a long time explaining your sense of humor.
 
your operation of a motor vehicle upon the highway is not a right, but a privliege.
God, I love that...a privilege. How lovely. I am privileged. I feel privileged. I am so complete...now that I take stock of how privileged I am

What an utter infantile, high-school level farce, this notion that driving is a privilege
 
The entire concept of a privilege granted by the state is sickening to me. THE STATE WORKS FOR US. Get that in your heads people
 
Lets ask the @ 17,000 people that are killer by DWI drivers every year.


Lets ask the families of the thousands killed by guns each year if they want random/or otherwise house to house safety checks.
 
Here we go again.

You have a "lawful duty" TO the state to pay highway taxes. They will sieze your money and/or lands if you don't.
What do you get in return? The "privilege" FROM the State to use those highways at The State's leisure.

Lest anyone attempt to counter with, "So just because you pay taxes you should have a right to drive blitzed?", don't bother. It's the convoluted argument always used in rights restrictions: "But there are people who are breaking the law. We need more laws to catch them breaking the first ones."

When it comes to firearms, however, we all understand that more laws, greater invasions, gun registration will do nothing to curb crime in the long run.

The dumbing down of America continues.
Rich
 
MikeTx has hit the proverbial nail on the head.

The Politicians make far too much money from the liquour lobby.

The simple solution would be this, you get caught drunk driving, you lose your car, your license and you spend one year in jail. No exceptions. Being drunk in your car means you get the punishment.

You get caught a second time you lose your car and you spend five years in jail, no exceptions.

You get caught a third time, your penalty goes to 25 years in jail.

It would fix the problem in a big hurry.

I have always thought it the height of stupitidy and disrespect to drive drunk and as lethal as it frequently is the most amazing thing to me is that the penalties are so low.

When we lived in Iowa we were amazed to see that literally nothing happened to repeat drunk drivers. I mean maybe a fine of a $100 or so. We saw many of them in the paper over and over.

These DUI stops are pure incrementalism. If there were no other possible fix that would be one thing. But steep penalties would end the problem. So I think the DUI checks are as Anti American as anything I have ever seen and an absolute affront to my Constitutional rights.
 
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