So you want to carry a .380?
- Thread starter Aguila Blanca
- Start date
Cosmodragoon
New member
Federal's 85-grain Hydra-Shoks in .327 Federal are my daily carry ammo. They represent the best balance of performance and recoil on the LCR. Now, I've only tested them on fruit, water jugs, old canned goods, phone books, wood, etc. It's enough to know that I prefer them over .38 special or .380 acp.
The issue with .380 isn't that it's weak or useless. It's actually not bad given how easy it is to carry some of the little guns that use it. The issue is that it's down near the margin. It's in a place where penetration versus expansion can be a serious question. It takes a lot of work to get it right and inspire confidence. (For example, this thread exists.) For some people, it just feels like a safer bet to use 9mm. In my case, I'm using the same weight projectile but with a little better sectional density and a few hundred more fps.
Whatever the case, I look forward to seeing these tested. I'd especially like to get a box over to Paul Harrell. =D
The issue with .380 isn't that it's weak or useless. It's actually not bad given how easy it is to carry some of the little guns that use it. The issue is that it's down near the margin. It's in a place where penetration versus expansion can be a serious question. It takes a lot of work to get it right and inspire confidence. (For example, this thread exists.) For some people, it just feels like a safer bet to use 9mm. In my case, I'm using the same weight projectile but with a little better sectional density and a few hundred more fps.
Whatever the case, I look forward to seeing these tested. I'd especially like to get a box over to Paul Harrell. =D
Funny..I sent Paul a box of Lehigh/Underwood Xtreme Defender .380 and asked for a 'meat target' test vs JHP and maybe 9mm JHP thru a lot of cloth..that 'box' of 20 cost $26, btw, plus shipping..
That was 2 years ago..I sent him an email, one was answered(busy, I'll get to it) the other..not..I still like his videos but canceled my patreron subscription to him..
BTW-I did a VERY unscientific test on my own..some pork ribs on a watermelon wrapped with about 10 layers of jeans..shot Lehigh Xtreme Defender .380 from about 5 YARDS and it made quite a nice mess of the watermelon..split the front, BIG hole in back. Tried another with 9mm JHP..didn't find the round but small hole going in, small hole coming out. It 'appeared' like it didn't open at all(clogged?).
YMMV and all that..
Last edited:
Also living in the Twin Cities I agree with your comments. Federal ammo has always been a solid reliable product and keeping them running is very important. I just left my LGS in Eden Prairie with a 825rd pack of Federal HP's for $30.
BTW, If you live in the southern Twin Cities, stop by our range on Wed. Nite or Sat morning.
https://policeandfire.training/public-programs/
A half dozen years ago we had a gel test of a number of calibers put on by Federal (ATK) at that time. Even back then it was clear .3809 could do the job. This new Federal offering should be a winner.
Also living in the Twin Cities I agree with your comments. Federal ammo has always been a solid reliable product and keeping them running is very important. I just left my LGS in Eden Prairie with a 825rd pack of Federal HP's for $30.
BTW, If you live in the southern Twin Cities, stop by our range on Wed. Nite or Sat morning.
https://policeandfire.training/public-programs/
Cosmodragoon
New member
Sorry to hear that Paul was busy. He has tested their Xtreme Penetrator in .380 and their Defender in 9mm.Funny..I sent Paul a box of Lehigh/Underwood Xtreme Defender .380 and asked for a 'meat target' test vs JHP and maybe 9mm JHP thru a lot of cloth..that 'box' of 20 cost $26, btw, plus shipping..
That was 2 years ago..I sent him an email, one was answered(busy, I'll get to it) the other..not..I still like his videos but canceled my patreron subscription to him..
BTW-I did a VERY unscientific test on my own..some pork ribs on a watermelon wrapped with about 10 layers of jeans..shot Lehigh Xtreme Defender .380 from about 5 years and it made quite a nice mess of the watermelon..split the front, BIG hole in back. Tried another with 9mm JHP..didn't find the round but small hole going in, small hole coming out. It 'appeared' like it didn't open at all(clogged?).
YMMV and all that..
Despite the silly name, I really like the concept of Lehigh's Penetrator solids. While it doesn't "penetrate" any more deeply than FMJ, it does seem to tear up up the wound channel nicely. If I was going to carry .380 or .38 special defensively, they'd be an easy choice based on the test results I've seen.
wild cat mccane
New member
Federal doesn't need help
Federal is owned by Vista Outdoors. Vista was a spin sister company of ATK. ATK owned CCI/Speer and about 95% of all other brands except for Freedom/Winchester and Hornady). Vista Outdoors brought CCI/Speer and Federal into the same company. Oh by the way, ATK was already owned by Northrop Grumman.
Vista is also owned by Northrop Grumman.
Northrop operates the Govt owned Lake City plant that provides every round of ammunition to the US government.
No.
Federal doesn't need your support one bit. Northrop Grumman owns Vista and owns almost every box you can randomly select online or in a store.
Federal is owned by Vista Outdoors. Vista was a spin sister company of ATK. ATK owned CCI/Speer and about 95% of all other brands except for Freedom/Winchester and Hornady). Vista Outdoors brought CCI/Speer and Federal into the same company. Oh by the way, ATK was already owned by Northrop Grumman.
Vista is also owned by Northrop Grumman.
Northrop operates the Govt owned Lake City plant that provides every round of ammunition to the US government.
No.
Federal doesn't need your support one bit. Northrop Grumman owns Vista and owns almost every box you can randomly select online or in a store.
Last edited:
Nice post. Nothing wrong with carrying .380. Is 9mm better, yea, of course it is. But is .380 good enough in most scenarios, yes. I'd rather carry a decent .380 that shoots well than an ultra small 9 that doesn't. And sometimes the 9 just doesn't conceal as well as I'd like or sometimes it's just to heavy for what I'm doing that day.
As far as Federal Hydra-shock, I like it. I use it in both the 9mm and the .40sw so I'll have to pick some of this up.
As far as Federal Hydra-shock, I like it. I use it in both the 9mm and the .40sw so I'll have to pick some of this up.
wild cat mccane
New member
HST is far better at expansion than what it replaced Hydra Shok that came out in 1988.
What is interesting about this is, Federal just released HST 380. Federal HST 380 wasn't reviewed as being super awesome like HST 9mm--with 9mm HST being the current gold standard in 9mm.
So why is Hydra Shok 380 being refined when Federal is way past Hydra Shok?
That is interesting.
Though, no comment on expansion. Just that it goes 13"
What is interesting about this is, Federal just released HST 380. Federal HST 380 wasn't reviewed as being super awesome like HST 9mm--with 9mm HST being the current gold standard in 9mm.
So why is Hydra Shok 380 being refined when Federal is way past Hydra Shok?
That is interesting.
Though, no comment on expansion. Just that it goes 13"
Last edited:
Meh, I'll stick with Hornady American Gunner XTPs.
.380 ACP XTPs are proven performers which typically meet minimum FBI/IWBA requirements in Ballistics Gel Tests, even out of Pocket Pistols such as the Ruger LCP.
I imagine that the Federal Hydra Shok Deep is just Federal's answer to the Hornady XTP, a bullet with moderate expansion but deep penetration.
.380 ACP XTPs are proven performers which typically meet minimum FBI/IWBA requirements in Ballistics Gel Tests, even out of Pocket Pistols such as the Ruger LCP.
I imagine that the Federal Hydra Shok Deep is just Federal's answer to the Hornady XTP, a bullet with moderate expansion but deep penetration.
Taken right from an advertisement...
And I'm sure they thank you for the plug, as well as for spending ~3x as much
This is the correct answer for 380
I've yet to see a 380 load that reliably expanded and penetrated deep enough.
They all fall short, so better to spend that boutique money on more practice and full penetration.
Expansion is over-rated anyway...
Practice
Placement
Penetration
wild cat mccane
New member
I as wrong. Found expansion.
So it looks like this will likely be the new gold standard for LCP length barrels. Beats XTP in expansion and equals in penetration due to the conical spire in the middle.
HST does great in longer barrels.
So it looks like this will likely be the new gold standard for LCP length barrels. Beats XTP in expansion and equals in penetration due to the conical spire in the middle.
HST does great in longer barrels.
Over the years I have had a number of carry guns . For the last 10 years or so a 380 is the carry piece for me . I bought a new Sig Sauer P230 made in Germany and as a carry gun it is hard to beat .
It is all about the AMMO i found the right stuff . UNDERWOOD i have shot some of the 100gr. at 1200 fps i can tell you the bad will not like it .
It is all about the AMMO i found the right stuff . UNDERWOOD i have shot some of the 100gr. at 1200 fps i can tell you the bad will not like it .
Last edited:
Kevin Rohrer
New member
Federal has you covered. According to a recent press release, there's a New Hydra-Shok Deep in .380 ACP that exceeds the FBI minimum penetration distance in both bare ballistics gelatin and through denim. If the inability of .380 ACP to satisfy the FBI's penetration standard is what's been holding you back from carrying a smaller, lighter .380 pistol, this might be the solution.
And within the next 10-years, I expect their "testing" to confirm that the .380 is the ultimate police round, just as they did with the (in chronological order) with the .38spl, 357mag, 10mm, .40cal, and the current 9mm.
But just as from the beginning of the Bureau to now, their privileged groups will still carry a 1911 (or 2011) in .45ACP.
And within the next 10-years, I expect their "testing" to confirm that the .380 is the ultimate police round, just as they did with the (in chronological order) with the .38spl, 357mag, 10mm, .40cal, and the current 9mm.
But just as from the beginning of the Bureau to now, their privileged groups will still carry a 1911 (or 2011) in .45ACP.