So you think bad guys don't practice?

Whether they practice or not Capt Charlie is not as important as the fact that they WILL pull the trigger.
While the average Joe is conditioned from childhood to not point guns, and not harm folks, criminals are not wired the same.
They can, and will pop a cap.
 
Bad guy here in Tampa just killed a HCSO deputy a couple days ago. Just walked up to the patrol car and fired. Round hit the armpit and exited the opposite side. Officer was dead at the scene.

Skin head bad guy was later disposed of by SWAT snipers after shooting at other officers.

Yes they will shoot.
 
It's true that a lot of LEO's don't practice/train as much as they should. It's also true that even more CCW holders don't practice. This incident should serve as a chilling reminder not only to train more, but also try to avoid trouble in the first place. When I took some self defense lessons years ago (martial art, unarmed), one thing the instructor instilled in us was the very real and likely possibility that your adversary might be better than you.

I've taken a one day basic pistol course as well as a four day defensive handgun course. I do not consider myself an expert by any stretch of the word. However, taking a course specifically focusing on defensive tactics made me realize how ill prepared I was beforehand, and how thankful I was that I haven't been involved in any gunfight encounters (which I most likely would have lost).

The number one problem with training, I think, is the mentality that a lot of gun owners have, especially males--"I know how to shoot. I don't need to train." Usually these folks have not been in any kind of situation that called for use of force. I can't tell you how many times I hear that from the armchair commando types that I know. They are the ones that criticize the credentials of everybody else, yet seem to have no credentials of their own, yet talk like they're the foremost authorities.

I think the next problem is, as someone else mentioned it, that most ranges don't allow defensive training, for insurance reasons. I see why public ranges would not want someone they can't control shooting himself in the leg while trying to draw, or firing up at the ceiling or down at the floor because someone pulled the trigger too soon. I can sympathize with that. But the fact remains that defensive shooting training is limited, outside of expensive training facilities that a lot of people can't afford, or are so far away.
 
I believe bangers do buy upscale guns. I've seen several nickel-plated Colt .38 Supers in various music videos. R. Kelly uses one in his infamous 'closet' opera.

Now, do they practice? If they do, it ain't in Wisconsin.

As you know, our Madison City Police have reported a running gun battle on our south side to the Wisconsin State Journal.

They have found numerous brass casings.

Strangely, they have not found a shooting victim, not one.

How in the world do your spray a street with .9mmx19, .38 Super, or .40 SW ammunition and not hit anything--not even the report of hitting an entire building.
 
Tourist, .9mm? That's a needle gun from Retief. And yes, they did hit something, but it was in the next county - hope nobody was hurt.
 
Who would you pick for an opponent between a career criminal or a regular cop for a shoot out ? I think that a majority of CCW holders are probably better marksman, and more inclined to study combat tactics than either.
 
I regretfully have to say that I was a jr. banger at one time about 10 years ago:barf:,Thank GOD that I quit after watching someone die as account of that "lifestyle".I found god moved,& changed my lifestyle:D,Thank jesus I didn't make any mistakes that I regret.And yes alot of those guys are fools that think a better or more expensive piece means bigger cahoonas,but like said in this post alot of people Will pull the trigger on someone else,no matter who is on the other end of the sights...

also All the luck to the LEO in this situation I hope i'm not the only one praying.
 
One thing I don't hear talked about much, if ever, is that practice doesn't make perfect. On one level it really doesn't matter if criminals practice (or if permit holders practice either) unless the practice is fundamentally sound, both physically and psychologically. Otherwise all that is happening is that bad practices are being drilled in--practices which will ensure both a false confidence and a lousy, if not lethal, result. I don't find myself much more worried about bad guys who practice shooting at garbage cans in a gravel pit somewhere than I do about the ones who don't practice. Practice doesn't make perfect at all; perfect practice makes perfect. Hopefully permit holders and law enforcement are all getting solid training from professionals and holding themselves accountable to follow that training in all their practice.
 
I think you are arguing semantics and taking too much comfort from the semantic issue. Bad guys don't have to practice properly to improve. A poor practice regime may not make them competition shooters, but it will make them better than they were. On top of that, they have the advantage of not having to worry about errant shots hitting bystanders like good guys have to worry about.
 
When I did armored work, I used to see kids in banger dress "practicing" at the arcade shooting games. They would hold the gun sideways, less than an inch from the screen, and STILL miss! I would walk by laughing, and say, "Keep practicing!"

S'Ok, Tourist, been there, done that.:p
 
Actually most gang bangers have a decent amount of trigger time. I would never assume a criminal isn't proficient with his weapon.
 
One thing I don't hear talked about much, if ever, is that practice doesn't make perfect. On one level it really doesn't matter if criminals practice (or if permit holders practice either) unless the practice is fundamentally sound, both physically and psychologically. Otherwise all that is happening is that bad practices are being drilled in--practices which will ensure both a false confidence and a lousy, if not lethal, result. I don't find myself much more worried about bad guys who practice shooting at garbage cans in a gravel pit somewhere than I do about the ones who don't practice. Practice doesn't make perfect at all; perfect practice makes perfect.
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Not necessarily true. If they understand the principle of using the sights, practice will make them better. Too many people think that just because someone holds a gun "gangsta" style that means they can't hit anything. One of the things I like to demonstrate in our classes is that it doesn't matter how you hold the gun, if the sights are aligned the bullet hits the target. I start by holding the gun sideways then end up with it completely upside down, pulling the trigger with my pinky. I can shoot "A's" all day long like that. The same with point shooting. The more you practice, the more proficient you become. You don't need to be able to beat shooters like me or Rob or anyone, just the average cop or gang banger. When the average cop practices once or twice a year and the BG practices once or twice a month, chances are the BG is going to have a higher level of proficiency.
 
Either way the bad guys training isn't in your control neither is his experience. Just make yourself as good as possible and let the chips fall come crunch time.
 
Lurper,

PLEASE post videos of you shooting gansta style!!!

That would be sweet!!!

My 2 cents on the topic; never underestimate your opponent...
 
Most cops don't practice enough. Most cop departments don't require enough practice. Most CCW folks don't practice enough either. Sadly, most ranges don't allow for defensive-style shooting practice because of "insurance" issues.
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That Force Science News article did point out that the BG's often practice more point shooting than do police. This is important and I think more of us need to practice point shooting. In many cases you are trying to move to cover or avoid your antagonist. This may require using the off hand to balance as you move or move a loved one to safety. Knowing how to fire one-handed without sighting is critical.

I know a guy who is an excellent shooter, competes in IPSC and trains hard. But as an experiment we tested his point-shooting skills and his shots went everywhere, including a 35% miss rate.
 
Presumably most street-thugs are techno-illiterates, thus such things as Google and BitTorrent are beyond their grasp. :)

Othewise, they're able to download, for free (Internet...all the piracy, none of the scurvy :p) a slew of gun training tutorials, from the AGI gunsmithing courses, James Yeagers series, Thunder Ranch DVD's, etc. etc. etc.

Thus, anyone with a desire to learn the skills can do so, and has only to have the means to practice them to gain proficiency in them, gaining perfect practice. :D
 
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