So Winchester 94 is back and made in Japan

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I understand the arguments about price, but not quality. The first 94 I bought was soon sold for a Marlin. I then discovered the 99 Savage and they are so smooth I would never go back to Marlin. I have seen what the Japanese produce and the quality argument is just silly. As far as the American buyer not buying a Harley made in Japan, they don't have to. A very large percentage of the parts are made in China for Harley now. I would like to talk to some one that worked at Winchester. I am curious as to how much stuff Winchester had made off shore before folding.
 
Hey, everyone...

Regarding the term "Japs..."

Yes, I know it's a common term. But it wasn't born in the best light, and has never been used in the best light, and like other racial epithets, doesn't exactly cast the best light on the user.

So, we're going to stop using the term at TFL.

RIGHT NOW.

And, if after reading this, you develop a sense of oddly placed moral outrage over not being allowed to use this pejorative term, and want to share that moral outrage?

Don't bother, because you decidedly will NOT like my response.
 
Dpris said:
" I'd strongly disagree on the rebounding hammer. Unnecesary, adds additional spring weight to the hammer, which means extra energy has to be applied to the lever in cocking the hammer & cycling the action.There are reports of unreliable ignition, although I've never encountered it myself.Of the two, if I had to have one, I'd keep the safety & jettison the rebound system."

++1 Denis, you're right on as usual. The rebounding system never should have been. I'll also echo sentiments that there is not a thing wrong with buying a Miroku,quality wise. They are and always have been an outstanding gun. The problem is it's the (same ol' lousy 90s/00s)configuration. For anywhere close to the current 94 asking price,we're talking at least quasi-collector/classic/nostalgia territory and, generally, not "just a shooter" hunting market, and with that the new 94 should have been Pre 64 spec at the least, and probably more like Pre War--even with tang IF they must (but please much rather not)--to make it a worthwhile production or buying exercise. For those wanting "just a shooter/hunter," as mentioned, there are plenty older AE and other Wins out there to choose from for a lot less.
 
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My prediction as to why a Miroku made Model 94 fails:

1. Price. The Win 94 was a quintessential deer rifle because it was relatively inexpensive, shot cheap ammo, and got the job done. It's been replaced out in the hills and hollers by the $100-$250 SKS, and by $250 shotguns shooting slugs due to changes in hunting weapons rules.

2. Availability of tons of old Model 94s in the used market for 1/3 the price.

3. Availability of old Marlins

4. The model 94 doesn't fit any "historic shooter" niche for the cowboy action or blackpowder shooters. Most seem to get replica 1892s, 1873s,etc already. The Italian and Spanish makers already make good quality copies of various Winchester designs.
I see no "high end demand" for the model 94.

5. Having Miroku make a high quality model 94 is akin to asking Kimber to make a high end .25 Auto polymer pistol. The design limits the application of quality manufacturing. I love my Miroku A-bolt. It's a fine piece of craftsmanship and a great shooter, built with a solid,accurate design that is well executed.
I also have a nice USRA Winchester from the late 90s. It's a fineexample of a lightweight $300 carbine, but is a "meh" shooter with barrel bands and a lightweight whippy barrel that heats up fast and shoots terribly when warm. IMHO, no amount of polish or better fitting can make the Win 94 design into a rifle worth $1200.
 
Hey, everyone...

Regarding the term "Japs..."

Yes, I know it's a common term. But it wasn't born in the best light, and has never been used in the best light, and like other racial epithets, doesn't exactly cast the best light on the user.

So, we're going to stop using the term at TFL.

RIGHT NOW.

And, if after reading this, you develop a sense of oddly placed moral outrage over not being allowed to use this pejorative term, and want to share that moral outrage?

Don't bother, because you decidedly will NOT like my response
Click to expand...

Thanks, Mike, for mentioning this. I know many of you probably use the term "Jap" in a tongue 'n cheek' sorta way and may not mean any offense, but as Mike mentioned, it was never used in a positive light and was meant as a racial epithet. I personally find the term offensive and have zero tolerance for any racial slur, whether it's used in a serious or joking manner. I hope we can continue to keep this forum civil and not resort to this type of language being used again.
 
Not to be a bad guy, but I am seeing a lot of butt hurt Americans here.

America, the name comes from "Amerika", a German (his cartographer) version of the Italian name "Amerigo". Or possibly the feminized version of his name. I've heard both. America is such an "American" name isn't it?

As for the gun, Japan has better quality steels, better craftsmanship as far as forging and machining, and why does it matter what country it's made in?

Yeah, I'm not currently working. Yeah, I was born here. Yeah, it's a lot of money for a gun that was available at $300 five years ago. The fact of the matter is, you can boycott it, you can dislike it, you can have any opinion you want. It's still a Winchester made rifle, Browning designed, and fires the same cartridges.

And to add, my Norinco 982 shotgun shoots like a dream, so does my friends Norinco SKS. I believe Norinco 1911 frames were better than most American made frames, and were often used for custom pistols at one time. Odd..?
 
Re Mike Irwin's comment about the term Japs- I pride myself in my multi cultural outlook- I believe in forgive and forget and that all men are created equal. Sadly there is a variation across the world in how free they are.

The day the Japs start teaching their children the truth about ww2- instead of teaching a fuzzy course that even suggests at some schools that USA and Japan were allies, I will forgive. In order for history not to repeat itself one must acknowledge the truth of ones actions and learn.

However, I have no problem with Jap made guns. I have owned a number of Miroku firearms and they are well engineered and shoot well. I have carried a Jap made B71, B86 , 92 (.357) and currently own a B92 44 mag.

I regret having sold my B71 and B92 .357 but a marriage break up and need for furniture and a lawn mower does this to a man.

I won't buy a new 94 though - I own a Winchester 94 made before in 1963- it took me a while to find an excellent pre 64, but it was worth a search. That rifle was made by men who cared, before the bean counters got at them.
 
the Japonese people refer to us as Gaijin ,IMHO the term Jap is no worse .
They do make good rifles and shotguns .
 
I know this is getting off topic but to me Jap has always been an abbreviation in the same way Brit is short for British. I've had Brit bikes and Brit guns and also Jap bikes and Jap rifles. I was surprised some years ago to find that these were considered slurs...

Some damn fine guns come out of Japan even if the local folks can't buy them.

BTW, I've been drooling over a Browning M96 Winchester copy at a local gun shop. If I had the bux, it would be mine already...

Tony
 
Why didn't they outsource it to China so I could pick one up at Wal-mart for $29.99? As long as it was a "sesonal" item. They could package them with a box of ammo and sunglasses for $37.99

Roll back prices people!
:D
 
Is this about guns or huge egos? Narrow minds and the need to belittle others so you can feel good about yourself?
Quality comes from pride in ones work and the drive to do even better, apparently they have it.........good they do excellent work!!!!!!
If all you can do is thump your chest and vomit racial slurs, go crack another beer and wash your tank tops.
This is not the place to use racial slurs or reveal your views on other ethnic backgrounds, grow up.


It's only a few ruining this for the rest of us, like normal....................

Do any of you know how many hits TFL gets everyday? This thread will sure show 'em how great we are.
 
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